bbc2 conspiracy files[sunday 9pm]

[timebase]

Hi Jay mi ol fruit...I've done loads of watching people give evidence...a lot of them academics...no not Brighton academicals, Shab...he's football on the brain...LOL

The American Govt and Larry Silverstein stories are just plain unbelieveable...you can't just decide to "pull" a 47 story block down in a couple of hours...takes weeks of preparation.
There is loads of material if you go on Google video and type conspiracy. I love reading these sites. People are so gullible that governments can tell them anything and they will believe them.
Re the Moon...I haven't seen one still picture or video that I considered to be shot on the Moon. The Moon buggy pix are a joke...just look at the dirt kicked up behind the tyres..it should travel in an arc but goes up and stops when it hits AIR. There are several towers of dirt behind the buggies as they bounce along on the Moon...yeh right LOL.
When things go against basic laws of physics, I just don't believe it.

Forgot to mention...all the Towers that were brought down were owned by Larry Silverstein who had them heavily insured just before 9/11. The buildings on the site that weren't owned by Larry were not brought down...fancy that... ...I think he collected 7 billion dollars.

[mobymatt]

Conspiracy theories will always exist whether it be regarding the assassination of JFK, the suicide of Marilyn Monroe, the landing on the Moon, the death of Princess Di or the tragic events of 9/11.

The difference with modern day conspiracy theories is they can now command a huge and immediate audience due to the massive growth of the world wide web.

I think both the huge benefit and the potential massive danger of the internet can be seen in the conspiracy theories resulting from 9/11.

I like to keep an open mind on any subject so I am happy to be corrected on this, but as far as I'm aware the strongest 'voice' for the conspiracy theorists comes in the shape of a documentary entitled "Loose Change":


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(video)


This film was made by a student who had first of all set out to make a fictional account of what might have happened if a conspiracy had taken place. He changed his mind and decided to make a documentary instead.


I have watched "Loose Change" in its entirety (it runs for about an hour and a half):


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...q=loose+change



I have also watched a video showing a virtual point-for-point rebuttal of every 'fact', 'argument' or 'point' raised in "Loose Change" (be warned this runs for nearly 3 hours!):


http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/


My opinion is this was mass murder at the hand of terrorists on an unprecedented scale that was completely evil and indiscriminatory in the intended target victims.

To suggest otherwise is both offensive to the families of the people who died in the initial attacks and to those who were caught up in the aftermath.

[kengillam]

As much as you might think the US government is a den of conspiracy I don't think even in the wildest realms of imagination that they were involved in the destructionof the Twin Towers. Whilst it might make fascinating TV there is no denying the fact that the planes flew into them, that was not a magic trick, nor the aftermath. The confusion and impotence of the administration in the immediate aftermath is evidence that it was not a conspiracy. This is just a cynical attempt by a film maker to gain prominence.

[dragonmist]

We were watching TV when they showed the first plane had hit the tower, and while we watched a second plane turned and hit the other tower. Dubya was reading a story to schoolchildren when they came to tell him. The thing that stuck in my mind was, that although he had just been given a piece of devastating news, he didn't seem in the least shocked, horrified, or even surprised. Reading the children a story seemed to be an odd and unlikely thing for him to be doing anyway as he isn't the best educated person, and I don't think it was something he had ever done before. Very carefully stage managed.

[mobymatt]

We were watching TV when they showed the first plane had hit the tower, and while we watched a second plane turned and hit the other tower. Dubya was reading a story to schoolchildren when they came to tell him. The thing that stuck in my mind was, that although he had just been given a piece of devastating news, he didn't seem in the least shocked, horrified, or even surprised. Reading the children a story seemed to be an odd and unlikely thing for him to be doing anyway as he isn't the best educated person, and I don't think it was something he had ever done before. Very carefully stage managed.

I've seen the footage of George W. Bush reading a story to the children - I don't think you have to be a particularly well-educated person to be able to read a story to a group of children so I'm not sure why you would find that "odd and unlikely"

The thing that struck me when he was given the news was he didn't know what to do. I think he was very visibly shocked and hadn't got a clue what he should do next when faced with such a crisis so he just continued to read to the children to the obvious alarm of his 'advisors' who were expecting him to lead.

[dragonmist]

Hypnotoad, Dubya had never done this before. He isn't a fluent reader, and stumbled over easy words, More than 7/8 of my living family are Americans. My cousins's son, a fireman, was believed at first to have been killed as the tower came down. His picture was in the newspapers.
In the USA, a lot of people were astonished that Bush went into a school to read to the children.
A lot of my relatives and friends believed, as I did, that he was not in the least surprised.
You think what you like, but it is already proved, under the Freedom of Information Act, that the plot to crash planes into buildings was known about well in advance, so Bush would not have been surprised.
Explain 2 things.
Why were no US Air Force planes in the air after the second plane hit the towers, when it was by then blindingly obvious that it was no accident?
Why were Osama Bin Laden's family allowed to fly out of the USA when all other planes were grounded? The Links between Osama Bin Laden and Bush's family are well documented.

[damian_steele]

I found it interesting that he later stated how shocked he was at watching the first plane hit the first tower whilst he was at the school. It was surprising to me because the footage of the first plane hitting wasn't released until days later - only the second plane was seen hitting during 9/11 itself. The only way he could have seen the first plane hitting was via a live feed which had been previously setup in the full knowledge of what was coming.

[dragonmist]

Thanks Damian. I forgot about that. The whole thing stinks.
As for Conspiracy theories? Who needs theories when the facts are there .
Just a couple of side notes. Theories can, and have been accepted as facts. Who is to say that a theory isn't a fact until it is proved or disproved? Healthy debate and openness about this tragedy is the only way the truth will ever come out. There are vested interests who want it all swept under the carpet.
1) Darwin's Theory of Evolution has never been proved. It it still scientifically only a theory, yet it is presented as fact, and taught in our schools. No-one is trying to debunk it, even though many experts have grave reservations about the original studies.
2) Professor Sir Roy Meadows introduced the idea of Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy. This was accepted as fact, and used as evidence in Court, when it was still only a theory. Women were jailed, and children forcibly removed from loving homes on the strength of this theory. This theory has been disproved, but too late for thousands of children which this Government says cannot be returned to their parents as they had settled in to their new lives with adoptive parents. Many of these children were autistic. The damage done to these families will never go away.

[mobymatt]

Explain 2 things.
Why were no US Air Force planes in the air after the second plane hit the towers, when it was by then blindingly obvious that it was no accident?

A few possible explanations as to the lack of a 'timely' response can be found on this page:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=3

Why were Osama Bin Laden's family allowed to fly out of the USA when all other planes were grounded? The Links between Osama Bin Laden and Bush's family are well documented.

That's not true. The restriction on flights was lifted on September 13. 24 members of the Bin Laden family left America along with other Saudi nationals between 14-24 September after being interviewed by the FBI.

The links between the Bin Laden and Bush families are well documented in Michael Moore's film 'Farenheit 9/11' and yet even on his own site it is acknowledged the airspace restrictions had been lifted:

V. The Timing of the Saudi Flights

Fahrenheit 9/11 : “At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.”

Commission Report, p. 556, n. 25: “[A]fter the airspace reopened, nine chartered flights with 160 people, mostly Saudi nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24.”

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911facts/

[timebase]

Hypno...why am I not surprised when you quote Popular Mechanics...nuff said. You have your views and I'm not going to try and convince you as life is too short. The jets should have been there...NO excuses.That makes Bush responsible as he is head of the military.

Here's an interesting clip. It shows how the TV media tries to squeeze out views which are not in line with the govt. and also some interesting footage about thermite and thermate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1-Dp_-7WI