The EU Referendum.

[billsstamps]

I want to vote out but am concerned if we do what the idiot in number ten will do to this country when / if he has total control over it. so to date I am unsure.

So it is a choice between the idiot in no. 10. or the idiot who leads the opposition, or the idiot in Europe.

Remind me why we voted out the Lib Dems...

[sidthelamp]

Here is a challenge to those people who would like to leave the EU.

When politicians make grand pronouncements, like Hilary Benn about the Russians, I always go back to source facts if available. This led me to the following page on the EU Parliament website about working towards a European Energy Union.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...DOC+XML+V0//EN

I am a person who is different to many in that in working life I can usually work with the big picture as well as drill down to get the lowest level of detail right. I am used to working with levels of multi-dimensional complexity that many people are not able to get their minds around.

However, this particular resolution is beyond me as it is so complicated.

Is there anybody who could succinctly summarise everything that this is about in say around 250 words?

If any of the people who want to leave the EU people could do that, then it would help you to win the argument about bureaucratic complexity in Brussels and Strasbourg and about how things could be done more simply.

For the record, in the absence of sufficient factual information on which to come to a sensible conclusion, I am of the opinion currently that there are major pros and cons on the UK membership of the EU so am overall somewhat neutral on the EU. I am not, therefore, an EU basher seeking to have a go at the EU at every opportunity when I post this item but am quite genuinely taken aback by the complexity of this resolution. What worries me is that there are likely to be others that are equally as complex. And all this complexity must require a small army of people to develop and to implement and must be costing a lot of money.

THATS EASY ITS a paranoid energy proposal thats unworkable , to implement half of it ,it would have to dissolve half of its enviro protection polices , no doubt its a hint/ precursor to the TTIP agreement were USA companies will start to provide power , there are plenty of hints if you read it with the above in mind, we already know eu governments will be challenged under the TTIP agreement if there polices are deemed to threaten business

[astral276]

So it is a choice between the idiot in no. 10. or the idiot who leads the opposition, or the idiot in Europe.

Remind me why we voted out the Lib Dems...

Because they are bigger idiots than the others?

[astral276]

DC not doing so good: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6872461.html

[astral276]

Sky News: "Five Labour Big Guns Enter EU Debate"

David Blunket
Margaret Beckett
Neil Kinnock
Jack Straw
Hilary Benn

Big Guns??? More like a bag of damp squibs. I would think his guide dog has a better political brain than Blunket.

[sheffieldtony]

Sky News: "Five Labour Big Guns Enter EU Debate"

David Blunket
Margaret Beckett
Neil Kinnock
Jack Straw
Hilary Benn

Big Guns??? More like a bag of damp squibs. I would think his guide dog has a better political brain than Blunket.

He,s the one who whenLeft Wing leader of Sheffield C.C. sent £1000s to Derek Hatton in Liverpool. Then changed is spots when he became an M.P. He was my local M.P. thats why I never voted Labour.

[westlondoncarparts]

Baron Neil Kinnoch is definitely a big gun having been a Vice President at the European Commission (the EU Civil Service) with responsibility for Administrative Reform and the Audit, Linguistics and Logistics Directorates.

During his time the auditors refused to sign off the EU accounts as representing a fair and accurate view of the EU’s finances because the EU accounting systems were inadequate and because there was widespread evidence of fraud amongst recipients of EU funds.

A keen supporter of improved transparency at the EU and of doing the right thing, Neil Kinnoch set lawyers on to his recently appointed Chief Accountant to try to prevent her from attending a meeting of the European Parliament's Budgetary Control Commission where she intended to tell them just how bad things were. He also threatened her with dismissal when she refused to sign off accounts that she knew were inaccurate. He did eventually fire her.

So with that inside knowledge of what needs to change at the EU, who better to step up to the soapbox plate and make grandiose pronouncements about the Referendum.

http://www.caef.org.uk/d64knnck.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-is-fired.html

As background context, the EU auditors have had issues with the EU accounts for the last 20 years.

https://euobserver.com/news/126405

To follow the BBC’s best practice of impartiality and of allowing the other side to put its case, the EU’s website gives the following rebuttal of the mythology of problems with the EU accounts. Click on ‘For years now, the auditors refuse to sign off the EU accounts!’ and you get the following commentary:

‘This is false. The European Court of Auditors gave a clean bill of health on our 2013 accounting books, for the seventh time in a row. This means every euro spent from the EU budget was duly recorded in the books and accounted for.
Where does the error rate the Court is constantly reporting come from?
When it comes to payments, the Court can confirm that the EU spending was in line with the rules only when the error rate is less than 2%. The Commission is working to move closer to this 2% threshold.
In the past years the Commission managed to keep the error rate under 5%. In other words, out of every 100 euro spent by the EU, at least 95 euro was free from error. While this is not enough to get the Court of Auditors' positive opinion, it does indicate the very high standard of management and control applied to taxpayers' money at EU level.
It is worth noting that the errors in EU spending are usually administrative mistakes, which are not fraud. According to Commission´s estimations only 0.2% of annual spending may be affected by fraud.‘

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/myths/myths_en.cfm

*********************

Which reminds me, the posting I made about the EU Energy Union does not seem to have any reference to recycling all the hot air that comes from some of these EU people.

[astral276]

Does anyone know of any England or Wales polls?

Results of a Wales poll at the bottom of this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35578127

On the question of Europe, a clear lead was opening up for those who would said they would vote to leave the EU in the forthcoming referendum, Prof Scully said.
The survey found 45% would vote to leave (+3) and 37% voting to remain (-3), with "don't knows" on 16% (+2) and those who said they would not vote on 3% (-2).

Can't vouch for the figures as they add up to 101% of people.

[MPS16]

.....Can't vouch for the figures as they add up to 101% of people.

I am 110% certain that you are correct.

Or maybe not.

PS more good news from Europe.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKCN0VN0UV

[sidthelamp]

Dwindling UK sovereignty may push attorney general to back BrexitBritain’s Attorney General Jeremy Wright may vote for a Brexit amid mounting concern that European courts are whittling away the UK’s sovereignty, it has emerged.