Would you like the OPTION of "Best Offer" available on eBid?

[marschenegger]

Best Offer is for sellers who second-guess themselves a lot of who can be tricked into doing so.

[sidthelamp]

thing is weaverboy sellers who offer "bestoffer" either crank there bins up to be able to apcept a best offer to make a proffit or they dont make a proffit, whitch is basicly either a con on the buyer or themselves, neither makes any sense and looks totaly unprofessional not only from the sellers point of view but from the sites point of view as well.

pricing weaver boy is about what the market will stand, what overheads you have and what your margins are,

theres a little clue in the above how a buyer can determin a price on a item without the seller appearing not knowing what he/she is doing!

[marschenegger]

We can go round in circles with blame and metaphors. At the end of the day a seller who prices himself out of the market only has himself to blame.

Oh good, then we agree that a best offer option is a bad idea. Oh, wait...

Buyers might very well run away, but this is based on your assumption that a sizeable majority of sellers will overprice their goods the minute Make Offer is unleashed upon us. I have noticed some sellers who have wildly overpriced Buy Now prices - does this mean we should remove Buy Now? There are other sellers whose auction start price is stupidly high, and others where it is too low (i.e. too good to be true - I lean towards the thinking that a low start price on certain goods can make the buyer think they are getting tat) - with those highs and lows in mind should we get rid of auction style listings?

You're comparing apples and cumquats. The Buy-It-Now option does not have the effect of dragging down auction price realizations like haggling does. Moreover, BIN can speed up a transaction, giving the potential buyer the incentive to stop the auction rather than risk losing the item to someone else in bidding. There are also no hidden prices involved and no waiting for the other party to answer offers and/or make counter-offers. An auction with a BIN option gives the buyer two prices, both of which are real, and a decision. Best Offer presents the buyer with a price that is NOT real and the tedious task of trying to extract the real price from the seller. I would prefer to use the existing facilities as they are clearly superior.

You don't seem to indicate any sort of figure anywhere just how many bad sellers exist, or how many sellers incapable of using a selling tool it takes to have an impact (whether real or imagined) on an auction site. Any chance of you giving us a percentage as to how many of these unworthy sellers there are on ebid?

I don't need an exact number. I can just point to e*ay as an example of an auction site that turned bad, or better yet, I can just point to the very next sentence you wrote for proof that bad sellers exist:

I kind of get the point that a number of sellers don't really get the idea of what selling is about, call them 'bad sellers' if you will.

Adding Make Offer isn't going to turn all of ebid's resident sellers into bad sellers overnight and I firmly believe we won't get a rush in price-hiking to any noticeable extent and certainly not to the point that it will scare customers away.

If we could hypothetically believe your assumptions are true, it would probably have more to do with the high number of abandoned listings than anything else. Before eBid should entertain adding questionable seller tools to those available, it has a much greater task in weeding out the segment of its membership that is dormant and has left behind scores of listings that ensnare buyers and make them waste time and money trying to purchase items that are effectively not available.

On the other hand, if sellers are given the Best Offer option and their prices DON'T go up, this tells me that their asking prices were already inflated and they stood to make huge profits on each and every item without giving the buyer the chance to haggle. Some people would look say that Best Offer is thus the solution to overpricing, but if sellers were already overpricing, what chance is there that Best offer will be the cure and make all bad sellers into good honest sellers? This is why I believe Best Offer is just more rope to let bad sellers hang themselves rather than to pull themselves up.

I only wish we could stop all this dancing around and for someone to admit they don't want Best Offer:

• because they perceive it will bring prices (i.e. values) down

As a corollary to this statement, you should include that it will bring prices down without increasing the overall number of successful sales. Even the few sellers who might make a few more sales will lose revenue, and you forgot to explain why this is a GOOD thing for us.

• because they could get undercut by a competitor who allows buyers to make offers

You yourself stated in no uncertain terms in your previous message that sellers (like me) who don't use Best Offer would stand to gain sales, thereby directly contradicting yourself in this message. It sounds like you're either waffling or you're just making things up as you go along, trying to defend the haggling option against any and all criticism.

• because it could cause the price guides to be worthless.

Price guides ARE next to worthless. They are usually written by dealers and represent more of a wish list of prices that the sellers want for their items instead of an actual market estimated price. It's unfortunate for you that you sell only items that have no price guides for them, but there's really no basis for using that to leverage your argument. Any seller selling any item can put up an asking price that is the minimum price they are seeking and not resort to tedious games played with potential buyers. If buyers are snubbing you because they see any fixed price you put up as inherently negotiable, it's not the fault of decent sellers who put up fair asking prices and expect to be treated with the same respect they give their customers.

[sidthelamp]

"You're comparing apples and cumquats. The Buy-It-Now option does not have the effect of dragging down auction price realizations like haggling does. Moreover, BIN can speed up a transaction, giving the potential buyer the incentive to stop the auction rather than risk losing the item to someone else in bidding. There are also no hidden prices involved and no waiting for the other party to answer offers and/or make counter-offers. An auction with a BIN option gives the buyer two prices, both of which are real, and a decision. Best Offer presents the buyer with a price that is NOT real and the tedious task of trying to extract the real price from the seller. I would prefer to use the existing facilities as they are clearly superior."

i would say mark that about sums it up. clearly Bins are what more and more buyers want,for the reasons you have given if sellers choose to auction there items then the starting price or reserve is in effect there BIN, if BINs, reserves are realistic then i see no reason why items should not gain the interest the sellers are expecting.

[jakkman]

Can you not just state in your description that price is negotiable, please email offers. ~ ps I am FOR IT, but if it never happens I suppose you could add it to your desc anyways.... J

[marschenegger]

"You're comparing apples and cumquats. The Buy-It-Now option does not have the effect of dragging down auction price realizations like haggling does. Moreover, BIN can speed up a transaction, giving the potential buyer the incentive to stop the auction rather than risk losing the item to someone else in bidding. There are also no hidden prices involved and no waiting for the other party to answer offers and/or make counter-offers. An auction with a BIN option gives the buyer two prices, both of which are real, and a decision. Best Offer presents the buyer with a price that is NOT real and the tedious task of trying to extract the real price from the seller. I would prefer to use the existing facilities as they are clearly superior."

i would say mark that about sums it up. clearly Bins are what more and more buyers want,for the reasons you have given if sellers choose to auction there items then the starting price or reserve is in effect there BIN, if BINs, reserves are realistic then i see no reason why items should not gain the interest the sellers are expecting.

That's true. And in the event that a seller overprices an item, they can always decide when the item fails to sell whether or not to re-list it for a lower price. The seller maintains control of the asking price and can decide if they want to take a loss. All of us have made some bad decisions at one time or another and we ended up with items for which we paid too much. The problem with the haggling option is that it puts control in the hands of the buyer, i.e., the person who has ZERO knowledge of the price the seller paid for the item and the person who wants to pay as little as possible. There's no way I can see that would be a beneficial process, especially in the anonymous venue of the Internet auction. Haggling works in flea markets because such a venue is a real-time selling environment. The two parties see each other and hammer out an arrangement to conclude a transaction there-and-then. This doesn't work in an environment where the two parties are physically far apart, do not know each other, and they may never be online together at the same time, meaning each side has to wait hours and even days for the other side to get back to them.

[booksforsale]

Oh good, then we agree that a best offer option is a bad idea. Oh, wait...



You're comparing apples and cumquats. The Buy-It-Now option does not have the effect of dragging down auction price realizations like haggling does. Moreover, BIN can speed up a transaction, giving the potential buyer the incentive to stop the auction rather than risk losing the item to someone else in bidding. There are also no hidden prices involved and no waiting for the other party to answer offers and/or make counter-offers. An auction with a BIN option gives the buyer two prices, both of which are real, and a decision. Best Offer presents the buyer with a price that is NOT real and the tedious task of trying to extract the real price from the seller. I would prefer to use the existing facilities as they are clearly superior.



I don't need an exact number. I can just point to e*ay as an example of an auction site that turned bad, or better yet, I can just point to the very next sentence you wrote for proof that bad sellers exist:



If we could hypothetically believe your assumptions are true, it would probably have more to do with the high number of abandoned listings than anything else. Before eBid should entertain adding questionable seller tools to those available, it has a much greater task in weeding out the segment of its membership that is dormant and has left behind scores of listings that ensnare buyers and make them waste time and money trying to purchase items that are effectively not available.

On the other hand, if sellers are given the Best Offer option and their prices DON'T go up, this tells me that their asking prices were already inflated and they stood to make huge profits on each and every item without giving the buyer the chance to haggle. Some people would look say that Best Offer is thus the solution to overpricing, but if sellers were already overpricing, what chance is there that Best offer will be the cure and make all bad sellers into good honest sellers? This is why I believe Best Offer is just more rope to let bad sellers hang themselves rather than to pull themselves up.



As a corollary to this statement, you should include that it will bring prices down without increasing the overall number of successful sales. Even the few sellers who might make a few more sales will lose revenue, and you forgot to explain why this is a GOOD thing for us.




You yourself stated in no uncertain terms in your previous message that sellers (like me) who don't use Best Offer would stand to gain sales, thereby directly contradicting yourself in this message. It sounds like you're either waffling or you're just making things up as you go along, trying to defend the haggling option against any and all criticism.



Price guides ARE next to worthless. They are usually written by dealers and represent more of a wish list of prices that the sellers want for their items instead of an actual market estimated price. It's unfortunate for you that you sell only items that have no price guides for them, but there's really no basis for using that to leverage your argument. Any seller selling any item can put up an asking price that is the minimum price they are seeking and not resort to tedious games played with potential buyers. If buyers are snubbing you because they see any fixed price you put up as inherently negotiable, it's not the fault of decent sellers who put up fair asking prices and expect to be treated with the same respect they give their customers.

Hey I give up you win!

I have looked through each of your points, which respond rigidly and unwaveringly to the ones I made, which flow logically and try not to confuse any reader, perhaps unfamiliar with the saga, into blindly believing your point of view.

I have tried hard, but refuse to resort to the trickery suggested by Schopenhauer, to counter your flawless logic.

It is time for me to hang up my boots on this one, and bow down to the master of debate.

I picked and picked at this and could not find any holes or contradictions in anything you say.

The further through this I got, the dawning became stronger that I was up against someone who really did know everything, someone who was always right and would give Stephen Fry (he of the brain as big as Ben Nevis) a good grilling.

There was one line that had me totally convinced and told me it was time to give up arguing with this font of knowledge.


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"It's unfortunate for you that you sell only items that have no price guides for them...."


Yes folks, that was the clincher. Everyone! Remember where you were, the day that Marschenneger wiped Book Price Guides off the face of the earth with the gusto of Winston Smith in the Ministry of Truth.

[redannigoni]

I've been following this thread for a number of days now and have been itching to join in, and in view of the recent posts with regards to the fairer sex not really contributing, I have decided to put 'my five eggs worth in'! I have voted in the poll and as both a seller and buyer have used very successfully this feature on the other site and have been well pleased with every transaction. If they had not been mutually advantageous they would not have happened and been successful. I worked in the retail trade out in the real world for many years and this to me is no different than offering items 'on sale' to shift stock that otherwise is not moving ie 'dead money'. I appreciate that things are different on each of the sites, as with Ebid if you are a 'life-time seller' you can just list to your heart's content and not worry if it doesn't sell, but on the other one every time you list there is a fee which detracts from your profit margin until eventually there is none and you might as well give it away. I do not consider myself a bad seller in anyway and I deeply resent the intimation that if you offer this facility, it makes you one. I have never hiked up prices to achieve the successful outcome of a 'best offer' nor would I do so. I merely want to see stock move and I choose very carefully what I make a 'best offer' on. I think this is a very individual thing and each seller has to make an informed choice according to what they sell and how it is not selling, what is right for them to do. The sheer arrogance of how you should or should not sell on this thread appals me and excuse me gentlemen but I think you are making this a great deal more complicated than needs be - you either want to sell or you don't want to! I want to sell and this site is not doing it for me despite all the advice and the actions accorded to me and countless others - the buyers in my field are just not coming here and I would consider doing just about anything to achieve that. Earlier this year I had over 80 items on sale here on Ebid - nothing moved - I gradually took these off and offered them on the other site and everyone sold gradually, either through the normal course of events or on a 'best offer' - so I don't want to hear that I'm a bad seller because I chose to take a different route to sell occasionally - some may think you are a 'pain in the butt' Weaverboy but go for it!

Every club has a 'cliquey' set and this site is no different to the other one - over the past year I have compared the two and there are 'Ebid police' the same as there are 'E..y police' - in other words don't rock the boat, don't change anything, come here, pay your money but don't expect anything too much in return. Whereas with the other site you do get to sell more than one item in about eight months or so and you do have the choice of selling tools to achieve that

[theweaverboy]

There's no way I can see that would be a beneficial process, especially in the anonymous venue of the Internet auction. Haggling works in flea markets because such a venue is a real-time selling environment. The two parties see each other and hammer out an arrangement to conclude a transaction there-and-then. This doesn't work in an environment where the two parties are physically far apart, do not know each other, and they may never be online together at the same time, meaning each side has to wait hours and even days for the other side to get back to them.

Interesting...

Then why have so many people said that it work for them in the past on FeeBay?

Oh and why have only 15.15% "Against it completely", 19.70% "don’t care", and the rest voted "for it" to one degree or another?

I believe the total would be 65.15%.

Wait since 9.09% voted "If others like it they should have it available to them." I sure you'll want to try to argue that the votes are invalid, so I'll put them in Limbo.

On just the people that voted that they would "actually" use the option, to one degree or another, it is at 56.06%.

If you and those who agree with you feel that you are absolutely correct and your argument leaves all others without merit quote this last part until January 1st 2010 with me.

Mark, Gazza, eBid administration inform the entire membership of this poll about the Best-Offer option and let see what they think. Let this be an open invitation to all to give there opinions on this matter.

Invitation to Vote
As an eBid member we would like your opinion on having a Best Offer option here on eBid. There is a poll on the subject in the forum under "Website Suggestions & Glitches" called "Would you like the OPTION of "Best Offer" available on eBid?". Your participation would be appreciated.

I value the opinions of others, and if the membership declares me wrong then I will bow and concede the debate for the option. Now just out of curiousity can the opposition to it say the same?

To booksforsale it's okay. I'll keep up the pace. You can rest brother.

To redannigoni watch what you wish for you just might get it;-)

[RedDoorTreasures]

When on fee-bay, I used best offer on all my store items. I think it helped a lot, because in a 'second-hand' market, as many of us are, the buyer feels good about haggling a little, so by making an offer, you could still do well selling a particular item. As it is, on ebid, all my items are listed at the lowest price I can accept. I know many would go for more if the best-offer feature were in place, then the price would settle somewhere in-between.