How about a "Best-Offer" or a "Haggle" option?

[booksforsale]

Much much needed facility.

What would be even better is if da boyz made it

OPTIONAL

for those who are against the idea.

It seems though that for some who are against it, the idea of it being

OPTIONAL

doesn't seem to be an

OPTION for them.

Having Best Offer has nothing to do with anyone wanting this site to be like feepay. It might be about having flexibility in how we close a sale.

The "If you don't like the lack of 'best offer' on ebid, why don't you go back to feepay" is a really lame thing to say. So is trying to argue that folk who want best offer, want ebid to be just like feepay.

What is the harm in having more selling options? on ebid. If this makes it more like feepay in some people's mind then so what! As long as fees don't go the way of feepay.

If I want £x no more, no less on a particular valued item. I can offer Buy Now.

If I have a minimum price and would like more I can offer it as auction.

If I have an item that has been sitting around for too long I can play it by ear by offering Best Offer. That way me and a buyer can agree on a compromise price, rather than me try to sell the item for what it I think it is worth and not make a sale, and the buyer to only want to pay what he thinks it is worth. That way we both lose out - I don't get any money and he don't get item.

You don't have to offer Best Offer.

You can offer Buy Now if you only want a predetermined price. You can offer Buy Now if you want stock sitting on your shelves/stockroom until someone eventually (this is ebid remember) comes along and buys the item

I don't, and don't really want to, understand this business about synthetic pricing - I don't want to take in what the books say about how you should sell your stuff on auction sites (books go out of date - so do items 'values').

I want to sell stuff according to the best way experience tells me to.

Best offer works for me. No use telling me to go back to feepay in that case, I still use feepay anyway.

If it don't work for you, don't choose it as a sales method.

Putting it in cold black and white - Seller A (who offers Best Offer) can undercut Seller B (who is not prepared to recognise Best Offer) - I wish some would be a little more honest and say that is what they really fear about the existence of Best Offer.

We have all been undercut at some point. That's tough/life/business.

You win some lose some, right?

[Teddyrose54]

Isn't it worth a try?

[marschenegger]

Try reading some of the arguments made by some sellers who are against having haggling as an
OPTION
before you get on your soap box. Or perhaps that's not an
OPTION
for you?

The "If you don't like the lack of 'best offer' on ebid, why don't you go back to feepay" is a really lame thing to say.

I agree. That's why some of us have been saying that eBid's buyer base is too small to support a haggling option and that having it only makes the few buyers who are here that much more fickle, thus driving down prices. If haggling is allowed, buyers will start looking at every starting price as being negotiable, even though many sellers take their time to price items competitively at the minimum price they would consider selling accepting. Instituting haggling, even just as an
OPTION
, would force the honest sellers to inflate their prices to be able to achieve their minimum threshold sell prices or risk selling at below this threshold.

Many sellers who want haggling and post their dogma on this forum conveniently ignore what others are saying. For example...

I don't, and don't really want to, understand this business about synthetic pricing - I don't want to take in what the books say about how you should sell your stuff on auction sites (books go out of date - so do items 'values').

Translation: I'm ignorant and want to stay ignorant. Please fix the site to cater to my self-imposed limitations. I don't read books now nor will I ever.

The site administrators have not implemented haggling, even though dozens of sellers have been whining like it's such a terrible crime to not have it available. It is clear from the poll results and from reading the comments left by people who voted that only a minority of sellers would use haggling in their listings. So on top of having a bad option available to drag down the whole site, most people don't want to use it for themselves. I don't think the admins need to explain their decision to us, but I would encourage those of you still unhappy about it to talk to them directly. Posting the same lame lines of reasoning again and again benefits nobody.

Putting it in cold black and white - Seller A (who offers Best Offer) can undercut Seller B (who is not prepared to recognise Best Offer) - I wish some would be a little more honest and say that is what they really fear about the existence of Best Offer.

You have the argument exactly backwards. Seller A wants haggling so they can put an unrealistic asking price on their auction, a price that is completely meaningless because they are telling prospective buyers they will accept lower offers. What buyer in their right mind would pay the full asking price knowing they can get the item for less? The practice breeds dishonesty, and yet again, you fail to answer Seller B's question of why you can't just price your items at a fair opening bid? If your item doesn't sell, you can drop the price later. If you still can't do that, why not just state in your item listings and/or About Me diatribe that you accept offers sent through eBid's messaging system?

Why does it always have to be what YOU want?

[marschenegger]

One more loose thought...

If haggling is such a great idea, why don't major retailers like Walmart use it? Hmmm...

[booksforsale]

marschenegger

Lets get one thing straight first.
You use the words "honest" and "dishonesty" in your post.

The connotations of that word are a little too weighty, and implying that the intentions of sellers who wish to use Buy Now or haggle are not nice, so be a good chap and avoid using those words in the way you are.

Now to clear another thing up, I have read the other arguments - do you assume because I hold an opposing view that I haven't read them

No-ones buyer base is too small to support haggling (strictly speaking we are discussing Best Offer) I occassionally sell at the car-boot sale, which has a tiny buyer base compared to here. My books are priced up, someone offers me an amount lower than the book's stated price. I then consider my financial position at the time (Have I covered my pitch? Have I covered my petrol? What is the likelihood of my selling this book anyway? Do I want to take it back home or do I want to SHIFT STOCK) ~ I weigh up my options. We chat. We either agree a compromise or we don't.

If we agree I go home with money, not heavy stock which takes up space, the customer walks off happy having found the book he has been searching out.

If we don't agree I have to take home a heavy book ~ No siree, that is not for me, I want money and happy customers.

Meanwhile, the guy at the pitch next to me who was also selling the same book is glaring at me because I undercut him and he missed out on the sale. For me, Amazon is that guy, who does the undercutting, and guess what there is sod-all little ole me can do about it, except the best I can with the resources at hand. This is why I need customers to approach me and say "Amazon want £x, will you take". I am likely to say yes. Why? Because for me to compete with the Amazon undercutters in that same arena means me being charged stupid, stupid fees by them. I actually make more by accepting less here on ebid.

Now back to the car boot sale. Did I do a "dishonest" thing and drive the price of that book down.

No!

What I did was weigh up what was right for me.

I perfectly understand that most items have an intrinsic value in line with the current market. I also have enough noddle to understand such concepts as supply and demand, rarity, collectable, topical currency.

Do you seriously, seriously think that because a seller offers Buy Now he is just going to give his stock away at the first sign of a customer, thus really lowering the 'value' of the item.

If every book out there had a value set in stone it would make my life so much easier. As it stands I have an idea what an item is worth, so do my fellow book sellers. Most of us also understand the market place is evolving and due to forces much, much bigger than us (Amazon.com) we need to adapt - Amazon sell books for a penny - I aint wasting time trying to get what I 'think' it is worth, when no-one is going to buy it from me - I am going to do the sensible thing and cut my losses in whichever way I can.

Now what about mid range or valuable, expensive books, in relation to best offer?

Look at any website selling books. You will see a range of prices, and a range of conditions. The customer has to choose one of these sellers. Hopefully it is me.

The point I should have made a long time ago, is that by offering Best Offer or a haggle (Against a Buy Now price), I will have a predetermined idea of two things

• what will give me a reasonable and happy profit (the straight Buy Now price)
  
• what will give me an acceptable profit (what I am prepared to accept as Best Offer)

THESE LIMITS WILL BE WITHIN AN ACCEPTABLE RANGE TO THE REST OF THE MARKET.

So I will say it again - offering Best Offer won't kill the market. it won't 'devalue' items, providing sellers stay within reasonable limits. In fact I would argue elsewhere that offering Best Offer in the current financial climate would help get the market moving again - there are a lot of folk out there with not a lot of money - buyers and sellers alike - if no-one budges and spends something because sellers can't get their head around the fact that people can't afford to spend at Yesteryears prices, then no cash is flowing.

With regard to dogmatic sellers convenienly ignoring what other people are saying. You give the example of what I stated. Just because I don't understand something doesn't mean to say it is right. There are a million-and-nine books out there claiming "how to sell", "how auctions work". Hell there are even books out there with titles such as

"How to Make Money Writing a Book Full of Rubbish That People Will Want to Believe Because They Have Spent Their Hard Earned Cash On It, So By Believing It They Will Feel Less Ripped Off After They Have Actually Seen Through It"

This notion also applies to some so-called academic books written by folk with "Doctor" before thier name - A title bought from emailspamuniversity.com.

Maybe I don't understand some of what is written in these books because it was claptrap to start off with.

Just because I don't understand (or more to the point accept) what the author has said, doesn't make my experience as a seller invalid.

Your 'translation' of my example uses the word and phrase ignorance and self-imposed limitation. Whilst I cannot accept being called ignorant, I can see how it was an easy choice of word for you to use to attempt to make your point stronger. However, you seriously can't use the phrase "self-imposed limitation", in relation to my wish to use Best Offer - surely by offering Best Offer I am broadening my horizons?

You translation is tosh and way off the mark by the way.

No-one is whining that it is a crime not to have 'haggling', you said that.

My argument regarding Seller A and Seller B is not wrong or backwards. What you propose is something entirely different.

You are rather handy when it comes to second guessing what people mean.

I am getting rather tired now and wish to go to bed. And can't be bothered picking over the rest of the conversation.

A conclusion I have come to though is that perhaps Best Offer is best for me and I am willing to accept that it is no good for you.

Here is my reasoning.

You are selling items which are collectable
I am selling (in the main) items which are meant to be used rather than sit in a collection.

It may be fair to say that sellers in your field 'cherish' the price of the item and wish to keep it where it is. In turn the buyers may also cherish that price - even though they probably wanted to pay a lot less than you were selling the item, once they have actually handed over the money they like to know that they can re-sell the item. In my opinion that is a false and inflated price or value or worth, call it what you will.

What I am selling is a read, some information, some illustrations. Unless the book is particularly collectable or valuable due to its rarity, chances are the buyer knows that its not going to have (with time and effort accounted for) much resale value.

Don't you be thinking I am caving in to your way of thinking here - we both have different types of product, perhaps a different customer base.

Best Offer suits me. It doesn't suit you.

I seriously don't think my offering Best Offer, and your not deciding to offer it is going to ruin your business.

I would accept your concern if offering Best Offer was mandatory.

Major retailers do haggle by the way. I have done it many times. Admittedly it is getting harder with the big stores. Jessops usually come away with the argument that their prices are already rock bottom, however the more you buy with them you can get some fantastic deals, especially when the shop manager gets to know you. Funnily enough when I build a relationship with my customers, I do good business and they come back again.

In fact most shopkeepers in the UK will welcome a haggle rather than lose a sale, it is just that most people are afraid to ask. We have plenty of consumer television programmes in the UK which are constantly telling us to haggle, an example being "Don't Get Done, Get Dom" (Google it).

Any retailer with any business clout will haggle everyday with their suppliers. I am sure Walmart do this.

May I recommend you read "Anyone Can Do It" by Duncan Bannatyne, a well respected Brit and working class hero.

This is the autobiography of a businessman who didn't read any books, had no qualifications, ended up in prison for not bowing down to the superiority that we are all supposed to, didn't start in business till he was thirty-ish. He was also disgusted by the 'accepted' ways of doing business which quite frankly boiled down to unnecessary greed. As I said he didn't read any of the books you are 'supposed' to read. He didn't accept the 'accepted' ways of doing business imposed by the greedy b******* who put 'disbursement this' and 'expenses that' on your invoice. Instead he used a bit of well thought out common sense and decided to do things HIS way.

Google Duncan Bannatyne

My last word. Bottom line. I am here to make a profit, not be part of some chummy cartel keeping the prices up.

[theweaverboy]

One more loose thought...

If haggling is such a great idea, why don't major retailers like Walmart use it? Hmmm...

They have great low prices everyday because of all those little Chinese kids. Watch what you say about them, they know Kung Fu.

Online sellers are mostly private individuals, not huge corporations.

When Wal-Mart wants to move inventory they send out emails, circulars, and do TV/radio ads on the sales they are having.

Most people wouldn't have enough time in the day to email all their past customers, let alone the money to do any of the rest. Heck eBid can't even knockout the money for advertising yet.

The site needs to be more versatile and accessible. EBid is going to have to go through some growing pains. And sure I guess I'm one of them.

I'd like to see them become a household name well before I have some grey in my mane.

And “booksforsale” spot on!

[TiasTreasures]

One more loose thought...

If haggling is such a great idea, why don't major retailers like Walmart use it? Hmmm...

Actually, quite a few companies, large and small, will haggle (although they don't call it that). My daughter-in-law got her cable company to lower their rates when she showed them an offer she got from another company. My neighbors "haggled" quite a bit with a buyer before they settled on a price for their home. Car dealers here are advertising that they'll "negotiate" a price with buyers ("haggling").

And, when my auto insurance company (AIG) got in trouble, I went shopping for a new company. I got estimates from three, took the lowest one to the company that insures my home, and they matched it. I think that qualifies as "haggling" too.

Also, I don't see Walmart as a good example of anything for eBid sellers. I've never seen an item in their store being auctioned, and I've never seen any vintage or used items there, either.

[terry5732]

Why has this noxious thread been allowed to persist for so long?

[deltadelta48]

Feel like my head is going to explode. If people want to ask for the additional feature, Best Offer, go right ahead. It is fine with me as long as it remains an optional feature. I never used it on feebay, if I don't like a price I don't bid or buy but I may not be the average person.

No, we can't predict what buyers will do with added features. But ebid buyers don't seem to want to mess around, be on line a long time, wait for emails, follow bidding closely, etc, so any feature that requires their close attention might not be used. But, no one can predict what will happen because, as was pointed out, no one is an expert.

[marschenegger]

marschenegger

Lets get one thing straight first.
You use the words "honest" and "dishonesty" in your post. ...

...My last word. Bottom line. I am here to make a profit, not be part of some chummy cartel keeping the prices up.

Booksforsale,

Thank you for that very cerebral and refreshing post! It was much more pleasant to read than your previous effort that came across as hugely condescending. You make many good observations, especially concerning different types of items. I agree that collectables have an entirely different kind of market than items like books with little or no resale value. For that reason, you are looking for sales... any sales! You say that you would not accept just any offer, but any offer made on an item that is essentially worthless will result in a sale, no? Mind you, I understand that some buyers are unrealistic and make offers in bad faith, and their offers should always be turned down no matter what. I am a seller of collectables and I don't rely on income from sales to support myself, so I am not really interested in hearing what buyers would pay me for my items (except out of pure academic interest). I know what I paid, and I base my asking prices on clearing a profit that is proportional to how much or how little I enjoy having the item. I also keep in mind that some buyers are just prowling for bargains that they can "flip" for profit on eBay. Obviously, you don't deal with many of those kinds of buyers who are very crafty at trying to extract bargains.

So my opposition to a Best Offer (a.k.a. haggling) feature comes mainly from self-interest, but I am trying to extend my concern to the well-being of the site in general. Many people (buyers and sellers) talk about eBay's best days being behind them, and they refer specifically to the early days when there were just auctions, no Buy-It-Now or fixed price listings, no store listings, and no haggling. Are some of those people extolling eBay's halcyon days the same ones who are saying in the same breath that the new features brought on by eBay are the same features eBid needs to improve? Naw, they can't be. I still keep watching my areas of interest on eBay, and listings with Best Offer are the exception. I stick to my assertion that most eBid sellers would also not use the feature, even if the majority say they want it as an option. If eBid suddenly decided to introduce a haggling option, I would stick around to see if its existence would impact my sales as I predict it would. If I find my sales dropping off because buyers are looking at my asking prices as inherently untrustworthy, I will try other online auction sites and let my presence on eBid fade. Best Offer is not a recommended feature for sellers in the collectables market, and if eBid wants to drive off business in that area and focus on retail merchandise with little to no resale value, they would be wise to introduce a haggling option.

For now, the site works well without haggling. The biggest impediment to gaining more regular buyers is probably just seller stupidity (i.e. asking prices too high, poor item titles, incomplete item descriptions, listing violations, etc).