Antique, Vintage or Collectable

[bideebid]

As with other auction sites, the owners should post what is meant by the various age categories and make damn sure that sellers adhere to the definitions when listing. That way, I might just be able to browse antiques without being confronted by lists of items which not only don't conform to category but are modern. Ebid should take note, this one of their significant failings. As with other sites, you can flag these things up yet little or nothing happens.

[luvintage]

Sorry, I don't know about cars but as far as other things, don't forget about "Retro".

It's not really "proper" but I refer to it as "antique" if it's 50 years or older.
Then I refer to it as Vintage if it's 20 to approx 50 years old. 10 to 20 years I call it Retro-under 10 I call it contemporarty. I don't adhere to this strictly but it's a general rule of thumb that I set up for me. Styles as opposed to age sometimes dictate the categories too.

I know this isn't technically correct but it seems to work in the jewelry world!

[deltadelta48]

Auction site categories have little to do with custom or export regulations. i.e. not everything in Antiques on ebid is 100 years old, yet a majority of the items are in the correct category. i.e. 50 year old tablecloths are in textile/linen category under antiques.

Not all sellers are serious collectors of the particular item they are selling. They make a guess as to age, origin etc. To serious collector it is not correct, but for general purposes it is ok. That sounds like what happened w/ china you mentioned.

[JaBek1]

Auction site categories have little to do with custom or export regulations. i.e. not everything in Antiques on ebid is 100 years old, yet a majority of the items are in the correct category. i.e. 50 year old tablecloths are in textile/linen category under antiques.

Not all sellers are serious collectors of the particular item they are selling. They make a guess as to age, origin etc. To serious collector it is not correct, but for general purposes it is ok. That sounds like what happened w/ china you mentioned.

I would be hesitant to list anything under 100 years old as "Antique" for fear of being charged with fraud. Of course, being a licensed auctioneer I could be held to a higher standard. However, with eBid advertising itself as an online auction site I would seriously consider tightening up on the categories in the case of "Antiques."

[deltadelta48]

[QUOTE=bideebid;1212842]

Auction site categories have little to do with custom or export regulations. i.e. not everything in Antiques on ebid is 100 years old,

As an American, you should know perfectly well that imported goods are liable to duty with some exceptions, of which "antiques" are one.

yet a majority of the items are in the correct category. i.e. 50 year old tablecloths are in textile/linen category under antiques.

If they're under an "antique" category they should be antique. In the event there are limited categories, then the seller's duty is to state something is not antique.

Not all sellers are serious collectors of the particular item they are selling.

I'm afraid that doesn't excuse them from either being truthful or complying with the law.


They make a guess as to age, origin etc.

Guessing is not what selling is about.

To serious collector it is not correct,

Then it isn't correct for anyone.

but for general purposes it is ok.

That's an even worse statement than the first part of your sentence.

That sounds like what happened w/ china you mentioned

No, what happened there is either people trying it on or they're amateurs.

I stand by my statements. Ebid calls that category Antiques. Sellers can use that for certain older items or put the item under a category for new items. There is no disclaimer or requirement that item be 100+ years old in Antiques. Two choices, that is reality of listing ON EBID.

These sellers are not ignorant "amateurs" or dishonest just because they use the categories that ebid gives them for listing their items. Again, Antiques or new for an older item?

"If they're under an "antique" category they should be antique. In the event there are limited categories, then the seller's duty is to state something is not antique." BINGO, you answered your own question. That is what people do in that category and you call them untruthful and not "complying with the law". All because there are customs requirements concerning that definition and ebid used that word for the category name. If ebid used "OLD" "VINTAGE" or "CLOWN" it would make no difference, whatever it is called, that is the only category for some items that are older unless seller wants to list it with new items.

Expertise? We differ again. "Guessing is not what seller is about" is pretty tough. I say a good seller can draw on that expertise to produce good listing for other items. i.e. you are expert on plates, I believe you can flip a silver platter, note maker, marks, measure it, describe pattern/design, and produce good listing. It would be fair, honest and factual, without you being silver expert.Every detail like a silver seller?No,but good listing with no dishonesty involved.You say no, I say yes.

Not productive to bring in alternate definitions, apply to ebid, and then mock those who do not comply. Ebid does not require they comply nor does ebid use the definition the same way. More productive to propose specific changes to category via proper thread. If ebid agrees, the changes will be made.

[kedo]

[QUOTE=bideebid;1212842]

If they're under an "antique" category they should be antique. In the event there are limited categories, then the seller's duty is to state something is not antique.

Not all sellers are serious collectors of the particular item they are selling.

I'm afraid that doesn't excuse them from either being truthful or complying with the law.


They make a guess as to age, origin etc.

Guessing is not what selling is about.

To serious collector it is not correct,

Then it isn't correct for anyone.

but for general purposes it is ok.

That's an even worse statement than the first part of your sentence.

That sounds like what happened w/ china you mentioned

No, what happened there is either people trying it on or they're amateurs.

That really made me laugh. Many of the items that I sell had long production runs which can span the Late Victorian, Edwardian period and beyond. Even if an item has a registration mark dating the design to e.g. 1898, who's to say when it was actually made.

Incidentally, is there a rule against amateurs selling online?

[deltadelta48]

Yup, if you are a newbie seller, police come to your house and take you away. Against the law.

Its true! "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"! Some rules don't apply everywhere.

Good point, not everything is perfect in this world. No date, wrong date, can't read the date. That is what happens in real world, and we can't refuse to sell it because something is unclear or date is iffy. We make educated guesses.

And expertise is over rated. Who does not take advantage of a bargain when they see it? Variety really sells well here. We do buy it and list it. We can hardly turn it down because we are not expert enough to list it here. Info is available, but time is important to us too. We can't spend hours researching a $20. We do the best we can.

[Gothicina]

I would be hesitant to list anything under 100 years old as "Antique" for fear of being charged with fraud. Of course, being a licensed auctioneer I could be held to a higher standard. However, with eBid advertising itself as an online auction site I would seriously consider tightening up on the categories in the case of "Antiques."

I don't think there is a legally set age for items being called Antique in the UK, looking around websites, it seems to be subjective, so a 50 year old car is Antique, but some Fine Art dealers use !50 years for what they sell.

Even the Firearms Laws, don't state the age.
From the Crown Prosecution Service Website
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/#a09

Antiques

All antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word "antique" is not defined in the Act but Home Office guidance on the subject can be summarised briefly as follows:

If modern ready made ammunition can be bought and fired using the weapon it cannot be classed as an antique;
A muzzle loading firearm is antique;
A breech loading firearm using a rim-fire cartridge exceeding .23 (but not 9mm) is antique;
A breech loading firearm using an ignition system other than rim-fire or centre is antique;
A breech loading centre fire firearm originally chambered for cartridges which are now obsolete and retains that original chambering is antique.

If the word Antique had a legal definition in UK Law, I'd of thought it would have been stated in this Act, instead of Guidelines being issued.

[JaBek1]

Not being well versed in UK law I'm not sure on the precise definition of "ANTIQUE" used by the UK Customs Service or whatever their title is. I suppose it doesn't matter except to the serious antiques dealer or collector. Of course, if a serious collector were to view the site's antique category and be confronted by a large number of non-antique items they may decide that the site isn't the place to shop for antiques.

When it comes to dating items it is usually best to be conservative and admit when the date is not known. It is often advisable to consult an expert in the field rather than hazard an uniformed guess. I would be a poor auctioneer in deed, if I described every yellow metal piece of jewelry as "gold" or attributed a painting to a particular artist merely because it was in his/her style.
It is the responsibility of every seller to perform their "due diligence" and provide accurate descriptions of the items they sell regardless of their status as a part-time or full-time seller.

[realnowhereman]

According to the U.S. Customs Service and most other sources I can find, an antique is an item that is at least 100 years of age.

So based on this I would think that vintage would be 21 to 99 years of age and collectible would be 1 day to 20 years of age.

Does this seem like it may be the industry standard? What are the eBid guidelines?

I am running my online auctions with the belief that an antique has to be 100 years old or older. That means vintage is anything from the 1970’s back to 1910 and I judge a collectible as a manufactured item designed for people to collect. With that said the three words are so subjective and used simply because most people do not know the difference. The three words are just lexis to be thrown around in a conversation and not much thought is given to their meaning.