Political Thread

[astral276]

PMQs:

May several times refused to state in response to questions that the end of free movement is her aim but instead refers to controlling free movement.

[cambrensis]

Simply because there was always free movement until WWI...(recall the arrest of Gladstone!) and only after that time did the "hoi polloi" require passports. Before that time the "Upper Crust" possessed " passports",which were in effect "letters of recommendation" from their Patrician friends, and not issued by any government department. It meant they could get a "sub" when strapped for cash, unlike the workmen who passed to and fro as journeymen.

[astral276]

...until WWI...(recall the arrest of Gladstone!)

No. I'm not that old; I'll defer to you being there to witness it.

I'll give May that she maybe doesn't want to tie herself to promises at this stage, but free movement is clearly not a red line in any negotiations. Afraid I just don't trust her to deliver on the referendum - though she was the best candidate for PM that stood for the post.

[cambrensis]

No. I'm not that old; I'll defer to you being there to witness it.

Afraid I just don't trust her to deliver on the referendum - though she was the best candidate for PM that stood for the post.

Thanks Mel! I thought it a well known story. In the time of the anarchist movement, "everybody knew" that anarchists dressed in black and carried a small black bag containing a bomb. As a result,UK Customs officers, perceiving a man dressed in black etc, stopped him and called the police. It was, of course, the famous Gladstone Bag...

Back to the main point: It's all very well "delivering on the referendum"; however, those who voted "out" do not appear to have had any coherent policy and they certainly did not formalise any proposals as how it was to be achieved in any logical way. The "ins" on the other hand, had the advantage of knowing what the situation is. All they had to do was say "better in".

Now we are in a situation where "Boris the Bold" is speaking of "going global" when it looks as if we shall have to import Civil Servants to do the negotiating, prior to government agreement! Should those negotiators turn out to be from the U.S. I can foresee many more gripes in these forums.

[astral276]

Back to the main point: It's all very well "delivering on the referendum"; however, those who voted "out" do not appear to have had any coherent policy and they certainly did not formalise any proposals as how it was to be achieved in any logical way. The "ins" on the other hand, had the advantage of knowing what the situation is. All they had to do was say "better in".

I don't believe that is true. It was simply a fact that no-one could see into the future. It then came down to a choice of do you place your future to your own hands or trust it to the hands of others that do not put your interests first. Remain offered the status quo; which did not exist. They were asking the UK people to tie themselves to wherever the EU wanted to go. This being a federal state controlled by Brussels where member nations were just administrative regions.

Now we are in a situation where "Boris the Bold" is speaking of "going global" when it looks as if we shall have to import Civil Servants to do the negotiating, prior to government agreement! Should those negotiators turn out to be from the U.S. I can foresee many more gripes in these forums.

That is a situation brought about by us ceding so much power to the EU over the years. Obviously when the power to control something is given away you do not maintain the establishment you had that looked after those things previously. Negotiators, be they domestic or bought in, work to the guidelines and red lines of those who engage them. They are told yes or no as the negotiations progress, and those employing them have the final say on the end result.

[astral276]

Where the EU is going?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-EU-superstate

[astral276]

We think we have got it bad? The Americans have to choose between Clinton and Trump. I don't envy them that one.

What's our American cousins view?

[tidewater50]

At least your not dealing with anyone like we have in Usa, we have the worst person in the world running for President, He is totally not presidential. USA has really a mess right now.

[tidewater50]

It is a mess, I have seen families torn apart, arguing about how bad or good Trump is. Friendships ended over arguing over Trump. The country is divided, the parties are a mess, we have two bad choices, so we must chose the lesser evil to vote for, which in this case is Clinton, because Trump just is not a good choice, too thin skinned, and he is a racist.

[pastime]

Hi,
I was on the gov uk petition site yesterday and signed several petitions. Was surprised the petition for British farmers to be legally paid at least the cost of production only had 2,127 signatures.
If anyone would like to sign, I've (hopefully) put the correct link below
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/162321

Having said that it hasn't gone blue, so perhaps I've made a mistake - if anyone know what I should have done, please let me know.
Many thanks.

Aah! gone blue after I posted it!