Protection & Security -- How much is too much

[ropegg]

In my opinion running campaigns to bring back previous customers IS advertising. As I mentioned before many of the big UK companies have recognised the value of keeping or bringing back an old customer who is familiar with your product and they are spending serious money on this.

I looked through my feedback last night and counted 22 people I have traded with- who have feedback ratings of 95% or higher- and who have strikethroughs through their name. Not every seller will have 22, even if they each only had a couple of unique names to add we would soon be in treble figures.

Peggy you have made a lot of valid points. Maybe we should copy our postings to a separate thread so they don't get overlooked.

Val, I agree and I will see if I can start with this and move the others too.

The two examples I gave no longer have strikethough IDs and I don't feel like my two are the only ones in that situation. You have 22 showing that have been banned but due to what I feel is OVER PROTECTION of the eBid community how many more of your buyers were at one time suspended with a strikethrough and after the situation was corrected said eBid is not worth the hassle. If they have to jump through hoops just to make a purchase many will not make the second jump. Also many would feel like they would never be able to do any selling if they couldn't even end up buying their first item without getting suspended.

[ropegg]

I'm starting to think this £2000 would be much better spent retaining current customers . At the moment I believe we loose far to many good customers for not very good reasons.
examples:
1. If i take a look through my feedback i have dozens and dozens of customers with strikethroughs - some deserved i'm sure - but what about all those with 100% positive feedback? have we 'banned' them from buying and selling because of a minor technicallity or misunderstanding? How much would it cost to send out explainitory emails when people get strikethroughs helping them get things right? How about shorter 'suspention' periods for minor issues?
2. Glytches such as seling templates defaulting to 'featured'. If we can iron out these long standing glytches we will retain more seller goodwill
3. Communication. It's getting better ( newsletter for example) but we could really do with a regular presence on these forums responding to questions.
4. Do something radical with pppay- it's no kind of asset for the site at the moment

So spend the £2000 on fixing longstanding glytches, on working out a better 'strikethrough' system and on employing someone ( part time) to respond to forum questions. Measure the effectiveness by comparing the numbers of lost customers in previous months to the numbers lost after the 'fixes' are put in place.

Moved from another thread.

[ropegg]

building on my last post. BT , British gas and other large companies have spent a fortune trying to lure back old customers. here's my suggestion on how ebid could bring back some former users.
1. Review the strikethrough users list and identify users with a feedback rating of (say) 95% or higher
2. Remove any who were struck through for serious breaches of ebids T & C
3. For the remainder, remove their strikethrough, give them buyer only status and send them an email which could start off something like like
" Following a review of ebid policies we are please to advise your ebid membership has been reinstated and you have been granted 'buyer' status...."

Whether or not these returning buyers would be allowed to upgrade to seller may depend on why they were suspended in the first case. I assume there is some kind opf code which identifies what suspentions related to, so it wouldn't cost much to build this in to the process

I don't know exactly how many members this would bring back, based on my own feedback records i'd estimate hundreds - many of who'm were good customers for sellers here. Welcome them home

Moved from another thread

[ropegg]

My biggest concern is with the STRIKETHOUGH and SUSPENSION of BUYERS.

I think it is good to be concerned with new members and keep the site creditable but I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF BUYERS HAVE BEEN DRIVEN AWAY FROM EBID before they even get a chance to see what eBid is really like or how creditable it is. One thing I don't like is the fact that a buyer doesn't actually have to do anything WRONG to be suspended. If they are new and have done something wrong there is a good chance that it does not warrant EMBARRASSING THEM BY SUSPENDING THEM AND PUTTING A STRIKETHROUGH their ID, contact them and give them a chance to correct it.

Here is what has STRONGLY RAISED MY CONCERN -----

When I found out about eBid and their no fees I almost couldn't contain myself -- WOO HOO AND WOW WOW I had found someplace besides feebay and it looked like something I could use to list and enjoy.

The first thing I did was sign up --- the next thing I did was tell someone else about it. I had a plate they wanted and I said hey why don't you join eBid too and buy it off there. They thought that was a good thing and did so.

BUT GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Within 24 hours of their bid they had been suspended with a strikethough and no notice that anything had happened. I did get a notice from eBid telling me they were concerned about the bidder's intentions. **** A new member, and had made one bid, and they WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR INTENTIONS. **** WOW *** The new member couldn't get into their account. They contacted eBid to see why they couldn't get into their account and were told they needed more information as to their address. They sent their information in again changing P.O. Box to Post Office Box and apparently all was well. They received an apology from eBid saying the offence should have never happened. I also contacted eBid concerning it and wondering why the bid had been removed from which I received an apology saying it had been an error. It seems to me it would have been much better to have sent and email to them asking for more information than to have suspended them with a strikethough and pulling their bid.

That immediately took away the WOO HOO AND WOW WOW feeling and to this day the other person has a hard time warming up to eBid. Although I still see great potential in eBid and I do like it, I will admit my feeling has never been the same either.

After I had been an eBid member about 7 months, I listed a ring and an eBid member in the same town I live in had a flea market and saw the ring and bid on it. They had been an eBid member for about 6 months but had not done anything yet as they were still using feebay. Within 24 hours of their bid, the bid had been removed and they had been SUSPENDED with a STRIKETHOUGH ID, no notice that anything had happened. I did get a notice from eBid telling me they were concerned about the bidder's intentions. **** A member that had signed up six months before but had done nothing since had made one bid and they WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR INTENTIONS. **** Again I contacted eBid concerning it and wondering why the bid had been removed from which I received an apology saying it had been an error. The bidder was also sent a letter of apology but they still have never used eBid to my knowledge.

After almost two years with eBid I have recently been having trouble making contact with someone that had been a new eBid member for 3 days and had bid on some of my merchandise. Knowing the sight is different and they were new and also knowing that I have been having some problems with email communications both with eBid and otherwise I decided to give them a call. I checked the internet and found a phone number with the address matching the information I had received from eBid and called to find it was no longer a working number. I contacted eBid asking if they had a different phone number and what I got back was no mention of a phone number or if eBid did in fact have one. I got a message saying they were taking appropriate action while investigating the matter further. It had been less than a week since they had made the purchase so what did eBid need to investigate just because I ask for a phone number. But GUESS WHAT --- I looked and sure enough there was a strikethough ID and they had been suspended. WHY - WHY - WHY

I did ask why and what they needed to investigate because of me asking for a phone number and I received a note saying they were concerned about scams and maybe they had been over zealous. Then they did send me a phone number though.

I DO NOT SEE WHERE ANY OF THESE ACTIONS DID ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THE BUYING OR SELLING SITUATION ON eBid. I truly don't think bidders normally scam with a bid (they may end up being a nonpaying bidder but I don't consider that a scam).I feel it would be better if eBid would not do anything to suspend a bidder unless there has been a complaint made by a seller (I would not call just asking for a phone number being a complaint). We need sellers and we need buyers but I feel like it will be easier to have and keep sellers if eBid does not run off the buyers.

I had transactions prior to eBid with two of the members involved above and had never had any negative situations and eBid admitted they had made an error in suspending them both and withdrawing their bids. Just those two that I had dealt with before eBid makes an average of 1 per year for me. If eBid runs away or even takes the chance of running away 1 new member per year per existing membership think of the results that can happen to eBid and the eBid community (which includes buyers and sellers). For each existing member think of how many buyers may well be driven away for nothing and how many seller are affected and what a difference it might make in the eBid community. If eBid had only 500 members and two new member were gained in a year for each of the 500 members that would make for 1500 members but if one just of those new members for each of the original 500 members left because they were treated like the ones mentioned above then eBid would end up with only 1000 members instead of 1500. I wonder how many really are lost!

I don't know what the £2000 can do to change this situation but I feel like we NEED BUYERS and DO NOT need to prematurely run them off. Like Val said, maybe some of the £2000 could be used to keep the members eBid has by hiring someone to actually do some communication which could be for forum questions and with the concerns about new buyers and old buyers when eBid feels there is a problem.

Moved from another thread

[ropegg]

I would love to be able to realistically give some advertising ideas and I would also love to see advancement in the US and other localities. That is far from being my field but I can't think of anything that £2K will do better than the adwords as far as advertising to get more members.

I do realize the idea of keeping the members we have is not advertising or solved by advertising but it does seem to cut the value of advertising if we are losing them unnecessarily.

I feel like eBid realizes that £2K is truly very little to advertise with unless it is done locally and local advertising is not the kind of advertising I feel eBid needs. Sometimes need and being able to fulfill it are far apart.

Moved from another thread.

[kengillam]

It must be simple for people to sign up and buy, and also pay. There has been quite a few comments about PPPay's lack of response. I have it on my listings along with other payment methods, but PPPay seems a bit of a clunky system. I can appreciate not wishing to fill eBays coffers via paypal and would therefore favour Google Checkout being pushed more. As regards the drops that people are reporting this must also have an impact on eBid as well as us as sellers, so I feel sure they are monitoring the situation. If a month passes will £4k be spent on Adwords next month to have more impact. The things is with advertising spend, you need invest to reach critical mass and then drip feed for the odd reminder once in the public consciousness.

Consider some TV adverts, you sometimes get a long one, then short reminders, but they utilise the impression the longer one made.

[Gothicina]

Val, I agree and I will see if I can start with this and move the others too.

The two examples I gave no longer have strikethough IDs and I don't feel like my two are the only ones in that situation. You have 22 showing that have been banned but due to what I feel is OVER PROTECTION of the eBid community how many more of your buyers were at one time suspended with a strikethrough and after the situation was corrected said eBid is not worth the hassle. If they have to jump through hoops just to make a purchase many will not make the second jump. Also many would feel like they would never be able to do any selling if they couldn't even end up buying their first item without getting suspended.

I've been giving this some thought since I read your original posts & have come up with a some suggestions that might help.

1) Users suspected of Buddy point irregularites because they have got lots of new signups shouldn't be suspended, after all we want them to get new people to join.
By all means such accounts should be placed on Watch by Support, so they can keep an eye on them, (maybe their buddypoints put on hold) but nothing should show on their account to the rest of us, they shouldn't be restricted from trading unless something can be proved.

2) A new status of Restricted Account introduced, instead of strikethru for signup irregularites & the like, those with this status should.

• Receive an email telling them there is a problem with their signup details, & until it is sorted out they can only have a Restricted Account.
• Restricted Account holders restricted to only bidding on 5 items until their signup details are sorted out. Sellers would have the choice to block Restricted Account users from bidding, or be able to cancel bids from Restricted Account Holders if they wished.

That way Peggy's could have let her buyers buy, but it stops the idiots that join, then bid on loads of items with no intent of paying.

3)The Account Verified thing should be sorted out properly so that it could be extended to members in all countries.

4) Those with their account put on hold because of listing irregularites should receive a warning email instead.
PLUS:-

• For things like wrong category & multiple listings be given a timescale to sort the problem. If they ignore the warning then further action to be taken.
• For Banned Items, & other listings that break the rules. Those listings removed, with stronger measures for repeat offenders.

5) Depending on the original offence, banned users allowed to re-join under probation, they should only be given this opportunity once.

6) The whole NPB & -3 feedback thing looked into. There are no easy answers but some Buyers & Sellers seem very impatient, & quick to leave a neg.

[HannaHolly]

Thanks Peggy for starting this thread and Gothica for some good suggestions. I welcome ALL debate on this issue and i really hope ebid take a look at this too.

[ropegg]

Hi Gothicina,

Thanks for adding your ideas as for two years now I have tried to understand and I am at a complete loss. I DO TRULY ENJOY eBid and I think the ones at the top certainly care about the eBid site and those that use it. I HAVE NEVER CONTACTED eBid ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I WAS NOT HUMANLY ANSWERED even if there were techincal difficulties preventing it for a time. I just have not been able to understand what is going on but I can understand that over zealousness and false accusations can be very damaging.



1) I feel like if there is problem with Buddy points just for sign ups --- it would probably be worth having. Anytime you have a reward system, unfortunately, some are going to try to abuse it. I also feel like more could be lost fighting the Buddy Point sign up abuse before the Buddy Points are attempted to be used than can be gained if let to run its course. If they are gaining Buddy Points by getting new members for eBid, SOME of the new members that (JUST SIGN UP TO HELP SOMEONE ELSE GET THE POINTS) might happen to find out they like eBid and the merchandise on it.

I wonder if there wouldn't end up being enough advertising to make any loss worth it. I have noticed that eBid is considering paying members to get others to sign up and upgrade to seller+ status which, I assume, can be covered by the membership fee. If someone gets 10 new members to sign up (even if it is a relative or a friend) eBid is being talked and promoted and 30 Buddy Points is the most I can see someone could possibly attain without any of the new members paying something in eBid fees. That seems like the advertising would be worth the chance. I do realize there are exceptions but I think they would be well documented if the offender was allowed to hang themself, so to speak.

2) If there is a restricted account ----- I think it should be for someone that has REAL EVIDENCE OF A PROBLEM.

My two situations for example -

A.

Would there be a need for restriction because someone used P.O. Box instead of POST OFFICE Box? I tend to feel if the only explaination from eBid is WE MADE AN ERROR that the sign up problem is probably eBids and there should be no need for a restriction. A simple letter stating some of the information was not transmitted and we need your address (or whatever) again.

B.

In the flea market one, they had been a member for 6 months and I had been a member for 7 months. In my inquiry about the bid being pulled eBid did actually give me a reason --- BUT ONLY AFTER I ASK WHY AND NOT WHEN I RECEIVED THE NOTICE THAT THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE BIDDERS INTENTIONS --- the reason they gave was that I was bidding on my own auctions and that was not allowed. They WOULD NOT TELL ME WHY THEY THOUGHT I WAS BIDDING ON MY OWN AUCTIONS but the only thing the bidder and I had in common WAS THE SAME ZIP CODE.

THAT REALLY HURT and ALMOST CAUSED ME TO CLOSE MY eBid LISTINGS AND LOOK ELSEWHERE.

I had been a member for 7 months listing items and working bringing people to eBid from feebay to buy from me here instead of listing them on feebay for them (some would not come across so I did as they desired and feebay got the business BUT I WAS TRYING TO BRING THEM TO eBid. The bidder had been a member for 6 months and had never made a transaction AND THEY THOUGHT IT WAS ME *** AFTER 6 MONTHS of bidding on nothing bidding on my own item.
This was a bid of $8.00 (about £4.00) including shipping. Why would I want to make what would probably be the first and only bid of $8.00 on my own item knowing that I spent the time listing it and the chance of a bidding war would be pretty much less than 0%?

In shill bidding (which I do not approve of), is only one bid on a item actually worth putting them on a restricted account and humiliating them when THERE IS PROBABLY NO PROOF, especially if it is the first bid?



It is a fact of life that all is not perfect. I ask God to guide me daily and desire to do what is right. I feel like it is EASIER to run off those with good intentions than it is those with less than good intentions. Personally, I would rather have NPBs in the mix (even if I had to take the hit with eBid's small fees for making the sale) and take a chance on someone's bidding actions not being quite right than to not have any buyers around or losing the ones that truly could be an asset to the eBid sellers.

I would like to see it where the seller needs to ask eBid to assist with a bidding problem than to have eBid assume there is a bidding problem.

WE DO NEED BIDDERS AND BUYERS OR I SEE NO NEED FOR SELLERS.

[Gothicina]

Hi Gothicina,


2) If there is a restricted account ----- I think it should be for someone that has REAL EVIDENCE OF A PROBLEM.


My two situations for example -

A.

Would there be a need for restriction because someone used P.O. Box instead of POST OFFICE Box? I tend to feel if the only explaination from eBid is WE MADE AN ERROR that the sign up problem is probably eBids and there should be no need for a restriction. A simple letter stating some of the information was not transmitted and we need your address (or whatever) again.

B.

In the flea market one, they had been a member for 6 months and I had been a member for 7 months. In my inquiry about the bid being pulled eBid did actually give me a reason --- BUT ONLY AFTER I ASK WHY AND NOT WHEN I RECEIVED THE NOTICE THAT THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE BIDDERS INTENTIONS --- the reason they gave was that I was bidding on my own auctions and that was not allowed. They WOULD NOT TELL ME WHY THEY THOUGHT I WAS BIDDING ON MY OWN AUCTIONS but the only thing the bidder and I had in common WAS THE SAME ZIP CODE.

In shill bidding (which I do not approve of), is only one bid on a item actually worth putting them on a restricted account and humiliating them when THERE IS PROBABLY NO PROOF, especially if it is the first bid?

A) I don't think restricting their account would be humiliating, just a necessary precaution until the address was sorted. It's no different to when your credit/debit card isn't accepted because of the wrong details, in my case on some cards I'm Miss C, others Chris, other's Christine, if I put in the wrong one my card is rejected. At least a restricted account wouldn't stop them buying completely.

If eBid just let errors in addresses &/or phone numbers go through, then there would be nothing to stop the idiots who sign up with false details, & bid on lots of items they have no intention of buying. I know lots of people lie about their details when they sign up to feebay, but I don't think allowing it is the way to go here.

B) In the UK if you & the buyer had the same Zip Code you would be very close neighbours or live in the same house.