Al Qaeda theatens the Pope now..........Oh and the rest of us ?

[damian_steele]

If the world were not constantly involved in wars and skirmishes, if we were not constantly urged to hate each other for our supposed differences, if we were not constantly pyschologically and chemically bombarded with false and conflicting urges to want this, need that and believe the other, we would be spending our time truly creating a society, a world, in which all people could be happy and equal, sharing the natural wealth the planet has to offer. We would give rather than sell, we would love rather than hate, we would, as the hippies used to say, make love, not war. There are forces which do not want this and so our world has become what it now is. These forces are hidden so well only because so many of us simply do not know there is anything to look for.

I have never singled out the Americans as the major part of the problem. I have pointed to America, the country, the nation, the political/social unit, as the greatest threat. See the distinction?

So you are saying that the people behind this huge conspiracy are the same people who create all the wars and discord in the world, so that the ordinary people won't have the time to seek out those who are in control?

So what about the wars that have happened for thousands of years?

What about the disharmony and discord which has been at the root of mankind's behaviour since before we were Neanderthals?

Mankind is a warring beast. We see evidence of it every single day and not just in the ways that most people think of it either. Take a look at the tribal nature of sports supporters and their violent attitude to others of a different group. Take a look at how one man will backstab another in business so that he may attain more wealth, power or status. Take a look at how males will spar with other males for their chosen female - and the women are just as bad.

So no, I cannot agree that some hidden group is behind ALL the discord and wars in the world. I think your explanation is far too simplistic and completely ignores mankind's natural instincts.

But some of the wars, yes. There will always be those who profit from war. There will always be those who put a word in the ear of the right leader to get them to take a certain path. But that again is man's way.

At the end of it all it is our society as a whole that breeds the problems will collectively face. There may well be those who take advantage of it, but they do not hold ultimate power over whether such events occur in a predetermined sequence or not.

[earthangel]

So you are saying that the people behind this huge conspiracy are the same people who create all the wars and discord in the world, so that the ordinary people won't have the time to seek out those who are in control?

So what about the wars that have happened for thousands of years?

What about the disharmony and discord which has been at the root of mankind's behaviour since before we were Neanderthals?

Mankind is a warring beast. We see evidence of it every single day and not just in the ways that most people think of it either. Take a look at the tribal nature of sports supporters and their violent attitude to others of a different group. Take a look at how one man will backstab another in business so that he may attain more wealth, power or status. Take a look at how males will spar with other males for their chosen female - and the women are just as bad.

So no, I cannot agree that some hidden group is behind ALL the discord and wars in the world. I think your explanation is far too simplistic and completely ignores mankind's natural instincts.

But some of the wars, yes. There will always be those who profit from war. There will always be those who put a word in the ear of the right leader to get them to take a certain path. But that again is man's way.

At the end of it all it is our society as a whole that breeds the problems will collectively face. There may well be those who take advantage of it, but they do not hold ultimate power over whether such events occur in a predetermined sequence or not.

Mankind is not a beast in the sense that I think you mean at all. Nor is he driven as much by inherited racial characteristics as the textbooks want us to believe. Yes, there have always been wars and violence, from the times when we were still struggling to build societies, because each individual spirit (soul, id, whatever you prefer to call it) has had to wage the inward struggle between the good and bad parts of itself.
When societies first developed into social and economic untis, there were spirits which sought to control and subjugate other spirits. In this sense, the "powers" we refer to have always been here. In more modern times (but still going back centuries) these powers have tightened their control and created a "ruling force", for want of a better term, which controls from within and without.

The "tribal nature" you mention, seen in sports, is a structure built up in each individual which is distorted and twisted into something undesirable (hooliganidsm, for instance) by the same forces controlling every other aspect of society.

I didn't mean to imply that these forces created the evils of the world. I don't think I ever said that. These forces control the evil that men do, turn it, manipulate it and in so doing, control us. Whether we know it, or believe it, or not.

[damian_steele]

These forces control the evil that men do, turn it, manipulate it and in so doing, control us. Whether we know it, or believe it, or not.

So now we have moved on from blaming mere humans for being the hidden conspirators in charge of all the ills in the world to some etheral, external beings who make us do their bidding?

This is starting to sound like a badly written horror movie.

I think this discussion has reached a point where it is so far off the topic that I am going to leave it.

We shall have to agree to differ in our beliefs.

[earthangel]

So now we have moved on from blaming mere humans for being the hidden conspirators in charge of all the ills in the world to some etheral, external beings who make us do their bidding?

This is starting to sound like a badly written horror movie.

I think this discussion has reached a point where it is so far off the topic that I am going to leave it.

We shall have to agree to differ in our beliefs.

The spirits I talked about are us, what you call human beings. You seem to want to think only in physical terms. When I think of human beings, I think of the soul which provides the body with its spiritual life, not just the physical body itself.

I suspect you have difficulty seeing "life" as anything but moving body parts, but if you wish to discontinue the discussion, fair enough. I'm happy to agree to disagree so long as we can do so amicably.

[damian_steele]

No, not tongue in cheek, absolutely serious. You put forward eloquent and intelligent posts on political subjects, and while I may not always agree with you, I am 100% in agreement with you on this subject.

Iran must be stopped NOW. You can take away the weapons and the means to make them, but you can't take away the knowledge...

Seems like the U.S. are in agreement if the following linked article is to be believed. War is just round the corner.

http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story618.htm

[kengillam]

I sincerely hope the White House don't embark on another stupid escapade, after Veitnam and Iraq, haven't they learnt anything.

[emma5721]

they might just be mad enough to do it, lets pray they friggin well dont

[damian_steele]

they might just be mad enough to do it, lets pray they friggin well dont

http://english.alarabonline.org/disp...2011:05:41%20ã

It's a long piece but it gives a scarily long list of the huge number of warships heading for the Gulf region. It also lists some of the capabilities of those warships and it looks a lot like those guys are not just popping round for a cup of tea.

[kengillam]

I sincerely hope that the UK doesn't get involved in any more stupid escapades of George Bush's!

[earthangel]

I'm still amazed that anyone can believe that George Bush has any control over the political adventuring of the US or any other nation. Would you assume that a shop window mannequin was the manager of the shop?