Non paying buyer. FVF charged unfair rule.

[rokins_toys]

In all my time on eBid I have probably had 3 buyers not pay for an item they hit buy now on. They have ignored payment reminders etc. so I have no issue with leaving neutral feedback stating something like "buyer failed to complete transaction, failed to respond to payment reminders and other attempts to communicate with buyer". The times I have had to do this it has been a new buyer who has signed up to eBid to specifically purchase from my store and then not bothered completing the transaction after "purchasing" the item. However, I think you should be able to get the fee refunded or have the fee cancelled out before you pay it without all the jumping through hoops from the moment you mark a buyer as non-paying etc.

[astral276]

However, I think you should be able to get the fee refunded or have the fee cancelled out before you pay it without all the jumping through hoops from the moment you mark a buyer as non-paying etc.

It's hardly 'jumping through hoops'. All you have to do is leave truthful feedback and request any levied fees back; that is no more steps than if you left positive feedback and requested refund of fees, and only one more step than if you only had to request the levied fees back.

The criteria in place have reason behind them:

1. With no restriction on payment method eBid cannot know if payment has been made or not.

2. Having to leave feedback deters abuse of the system. While fees are low here, there are still people that will consider that they have had a good day if they can cheat someone out of a few pence.

3. The wait between marking as unpaid and being able to request a fee refund gives the buyer a chance to pay. There are some sellers around that will demand a refund if the buyer doesn't make payment within minutes of purchase. The 3 days at least covers a weekend away and is the absolute minimum reasonable time in which to expect payment if 'instant payment' is not selected on the listing.

[madelaine]

wot mel said

[JanetB]

It's hardly 'jumping through hoops'. All you have to do is leave truthful feedback and request any levied fees back; that is no more steps than if you left positive feedback and requested refund of fees, and only one more step than if you only had to request the levied fees back.

The criteria in place have reason behind them:

1. With no restriction on payment method eBid cannot know if payment has been made or not.

2. Having to leave feedback deters abuse of the system. While fees are low here, there are still people that will consider that they have had a good day if they can cheat someone out of a few pence.

3. The wait between marking as unpaid and being able to request a fee refund gives the buyer a chance to pay. There are some sellers around that will demand a refund if the buyer doesn't make payment within minutes of purchase. The 3 days at least covers a weekend away and is the absolute minimum reasonable time in which to expect payment if 'instant payment' is not selected on the listing.

Excellent explanation Mel

[rokins_toys]

I have no problem doing the payment reminders as I allow 7 days for payment to be made after which I do mark as non-paying etc. if there is no response from the buyer. But why the necessity in leaving feedback as part of gaining a refund especially if eBid feels that the buyer's account should be deleted anyway after the non-paying process.

I do understand what the original post is saying about leaving feedback when you could have someone who is generally a good buyer who may take a day or two to pay (or even the best part of 7 days and normally notifies you of that which you agree to) but are taken ill or worse during that time and there is no completion of the transaction and no communication from the buyer and no one associated with the person informs you or eBid of anything so I do think neutral/neg feedback in such circumstances is a bit unfair in the refund process of fvf's regardless of whether you can change the feedback or not which maybe the OP doesn't know feedback can be changed? And is there a time limit on when feedback can no longer be changed I have no idea. And this is a fair point from the OP on the feedback.

When it comes to newly signed up buyers who sign up to purchase something specific from a specific seller, do not complete the transaction, ignore payment reminders and other attempts to communicate with them (which is my own experience with it), then yes, they deserve the neutral/neg feedback but there is no point in doing it as part of the refund process on fvf's if eBid is going to delete their accounts anyway shortly after the non-paying process which is something else the OP is probably referring to as well - what is the point in leaving the feedback when it is clear this particular individual has no intention of ever coming back to eBid anyway while having their account deleted too after the non-paying process.

They are fair questions and fair points that the OP is raising and given that this is the case with most non-paying buyers on eBid (mainly the newly signed up ones this tends to refer to anyway) then it is an unnecessary hoop to jump through when the buyer will have their account deleted at some point anyway so the feedback serves no purpose to other sellers when that new buyer has signed up specifically to purchase something specific from that one specific seller with no intention of being regular shopper on eBid which is often the case with such buyers. Some sellers will feel that the feedback request as part of the refund/non-paying process is a waste of time when that new buyers' account will be deleted anyway and they have every right to feel that and express what they feel about it.

Edit: The 3 buyers (newly signed up on day of purchases) I had that were non-paying are no longer on my blackball list so eBid deleted their accounts as I would never remove their usernames from my blackball list. These were buyers that signed up specifically to purchase something from my store and probably had no intention of coming back to eBid for anything else again let alone paying for what they "purchased" from me and as their accounts were deleted probably very shortly after the non-paying process then I do feel now that me leaving them neutral feedback was a complete waste of my time.

As an after thought, I was not referring at all to the 3 days and payment reminders etc. in my posts, solely the requirement of feedback in the non-paying buyer process in getting a refund for fees. There really is no need in having this requirement to leave the feedback as part of the process when in most cases the buyer's account is deleted anyway. So I would suggest that leaving feedback should be optional, kept outside of the process, and it would be a simple change to remove the feedback requirement rom the process. If the buyer is just getting a warning/strike with their account remaining active to continue buying for the foreseeable future then you still have the option to go ahead and leave the feedback in the normal way about them being non-paying etc. anyway if you want to but if it is a case that the buyer will have their account deleted by eBid anyway at the end of the process then the feedback seems a bit pointless and a waste of a sellers' time when these types of buyers (newly signed up on day of purchase in most cases) have no intention of ever coming back to eBid anyway let alone completing any transaction they have started and will just delete payment reminders and whatever else may be is sent to them by eBid or the seller.

[jbsales222]

The major percentage of my sales end up with without being paid for. And, this increased substantially when eBid changed to their current website.

My suspicion is that the primary reason for the non payment is that the "By Now for $xx.xx" click box is on left side of the screen and shipping fee is on the right side or even off the screen if viewer is zoomed in.

I have had several after sale requests from buyers that indicated they did not see the shipping fee before it was too late to cancel the transaction. When this has happened, I have given neutral feedback with text indicating something like "Buyer requested cancellation of order". This is after I sent them a message indicating what to expect in they way of payment reminders and wait times. At least with these, I know I can relist the item for sale.

In the vast majority of the cases, the buyer just never pays. If the buyer doesn't have the courtesy of at least letting me know there is a problem, I give them negative feedback with wording such as "No payment". This is primarily because lack of payment has me stuck holding the item for a week before NPB processing can be finalized and I can then relist it for sale after that long wait period.

There was one case where buyer overlooked a significantly lower shipping option. Once I pointed that out to her, she was very happy and sent payment. After that, she gave me positive feedback.

[tony41]

The major percentage of my sales end up with without being paid for. And, this increased substantially when eBid changed to their current website.

My suspicion is that the primary reason for the non payment is that the "By Now for $xx.xx" click box is on left side of the screen and shipping fee is on the right side or even off the screen if viewer is zoomed in.

I have had several after sale requests from buyers that indicated they did not see the shipping fee before it was too late to cancel the transaction. When this has happened, I have given neutral feedback with text indicating something like "Buyer requested cancellation of order". This is after I sent them a message indicating what to expect in they way of payment reminders and wait times. At least with these, I know I can relist the item for sale.

In the vast majority of the cases, the buyer just never pays. If the buyer doesn't have the courtesy of at least letting me know there is a problem, I give them negative feedback with wording such as "No payment". This is primarily because lack of payment has me stuck holding the item for a week before NPB processing can be finalized and I can then relist it for sale after that long wait period.

There was one case where buyer overlooked a significantly lower shipping option. Once I pointed that out to her, she was very happy and sent payment. After that, she gave me positive feedback.

I don't see what you are talking about. When I look at one of your listings I see a buy now price in the centre of the screen and your shipping fee quite close to the right of the buy now price. So I don't see the point you are making.

[jbsales222]

Maybe it has to do with what web browser you are using as well as size and shape of window?

On my MacBook with Firefox, it shows both to right of image but far apart on the window I normally use.

When I shrink width of window, those move below image of the item but still on opposite sides.

Plus, I have had some buyers mention to me that they never saw the shipping price before they purchased. Once they did, they had no way to undo that selection. I don't know what hardware or browser they may have been using.

[BigKidsAttic]

I had a new customer "buy" 15 items at once (majority of my items are "buy Now", yet did not pay.
After sending 3 payment reminders, they only contacted me once i'd marked one of the items as NPB.
They said they were new and didn't realise that adding it to the basket was buying it, and asked to cancel the sales.
I explained the process for marking as NPB to reclaim FVF. Unfortunately, after 15 NPB (I don't know why the invoice couldn't be marked as just one NPB), their account was closed
So maybe the "Basket" is the problem.

[lofty100e]

I had a new customer "buy" 15 items at once (majority of my items are "buy Now", yet did not pay.
After sending 3 payment reminders, they only contacted me once i'd marked one of the items as NPB.
They said they were new and didn't realise that adding it to the basket was buying it, and asked to cancel the sales.
I explained the process for marking as NPB to reclaim FVF. Unfortunately, after 15 NPB (I don't know why the invoice couldn't be marked as just one NPB), their account was closed
So maybe the "Basket" is the problem.

One problem with having a communal basket on eBid would be the very diverse number of payment methods that people use. On the River site the payments are I guess all processed centrally by River admin and distributerd (at a cost presumably) to the various merchants. Similarly at the other place everyone uses paypoo.