Deciding the Winner of the YDC Auctions

[brian64]

Allow me to preface my response to your posts with two things you may not know about me.

First, regardless of how I respond to a post, suggestion, comment, etc I do make every effort to give it careful consideration and attempt to see it from the writer or speaker's point of view. I don't always succeed, but I do try.

Secondly, my perspective may be slightly skewed because of the years in my professional life spent writing, interpreting and implementing rules, regulations and laws.

That being said, here is my humble opinion on the matter:

The "spirit" of YDC, as indicated in the rules, is not unilateral. It has at least two facets. One is to raise as much money as possible for charity. The second is a competitive component.

My original question was about the competitive component of the "spirit".

The words missed in many listings is not "This is an entry", but "this is an entry in the YDC nn charity auction competition.

As the rules are currently written and I understand them, the competition component is optional and not mandatory for any listing in the YDC event. Every listing must be for charity or a worthy cause. Every listing does not need to be an entry in the competition.

Not quite sure what is meant by "If the rules are to be enforced, then they need to be enforced correctly." What would be an example of incorrectly enforcing the rules?

In the US if someone does not like a rule, regulation or law they have 3 options:

1. To work around it. This may be why there are so many lawyers in the US. No offence to lawyers intended.
2. To break it and take the consequences.
3. To work to change it more to their liking.

I have no problem with the current YDC rules. I do, however, think they could be formatted in such a way to make each component of YDC clearer and as a consequence more easily implemented. That was my thinking behind post #34 & 37.

Well if they just list this is an entry and don't write the part in the YDC Competition i think it should be accepted as an entry into the YCD competition as long as they have YCD nn in the title what else would they be entering when they list a Charity auction and that is why i think all auctions should be classed as entries into the YCD competition if they have YCD nn in the title and a named charity in the description area.
Personally it don't affect me as i always put the correct wording in but i have seen people make mistakes and this is one way of avoiding them and that along with the option to put OO​ in the title to opt out might make it run a bit smoother

[hurryb4itsgone]

Well if they just list this is an entry and don't write the part in the YDC Competition i think it should be accepted as an entry into the YCD competition as long as they have YCD nn in the title what else would they be entering when they list a Charity auction and that is why i think all auctions should be classed as entries into the YCD competition if they have YCD nn in the title and a named charity in the description area.
Personally it don't affect me as i always put the correct wording in but i have seen people make mistakes and this is one way of avoiding them and that along with the option to put OO​ in the title to opt out might make it run a bit smoother

Entry into what? The competition ... the YDC event? If the word competition is not included, based on the current rules, the person doing the listing has implied that they have not entered the competition. They are just entering their listing in the YDC event to raise money for charity or a worthy cause.

[brian64]

Entry into what? The competition ... the YDC event? If the word competition is not included, based on the current rules, the person doing the listing has implied that they have not entered the competition. They are just entering their listing in the YDC event to raise money for charity or a worthy cause.

Yes that is the situation at the minute and what i am suggesting is a rule change were you don't have to write in the description that you are entering the competition as i have said several times already some people want to enter but fail to put it on the description so they are penalized for not keeping to the rules as it currently stands.

I just think it would be a lot simpler if all listings were opted into the competition unless they opted out by putting OO in the title if they don't want to enter the competition.
As you have said yourself you have seen many auctions listed that haven't had the correct wording to meet the rules and it was confusing as to whether they had chosen not to enter the competition element or had forgotten to add it in the description so this is one option that would avoid mistakes and confusion and you could see by the title if a listing is opted out of the competition without having to read the description.

[hurryb4itsgone]

Yes that is the situation at the minute and what i am suggesting is a rule change were you don't have to write in the description that you are entering the competition as i have said several times already some people want to enter but fail to put it on the description so they are penalized for not keeping to the rules as it currently stands.

I just think it would be a lot simpler if all listings were opted into the competition unless they opted out by putting OO in the title if they don't want to enter the competition.
As you have said yourself you have seen many auctions listed that haven't had the correct wording to meet the rules and it was confusing as to whether they had chosen not to enter the competition element or had forgotten to add it in the description so this is one option that would avoid mistakes and confusion and you could see by the title if a listing is opted out of the competition without having to read the description.

Your suggested rule change that everyone will be part of the competition, unless they follow some mechanism or rule to opt out of the competition is starting to sound like contract law ... all persons are part of the group or agreement unless said persons follow said added and necessary steps to not to be.

That doesn't really sound simpler to me. It automatically makes a listing something it may not want to be and still requires something in a listing or listing title that indicates the status of the listing.

The current rules work from the opposite position. You are not in unless you want to be in.

Personally, I would rather be given the opportunity to join in if I want to ... rather than be told I'm in and have to do some arbitrary thing if I want to get out.

From my perspective, as a YDC participant you have the right to propose any rule change you would like. It would be up to YDC community as a whole to decide if that is a wanted and necessary change.

[brian64]

well it was just a suggestion to save the current confusion that happens at the minute when people forget to put that they are entering into the competition element as there are consequences if they don't and wanted to be in the competition as i said people often make mistakes it was just a suggestion on a way to avoid it as i have already said the current rule don't affect me as i copy and paste my YDC listing so i always have the correct wording in it.

[hurryb4itsgone]

well it was just a suggestion to save the current confusion that happens at the minute when people forget to put that they are entering into the competition element as there are consequences if they don't and wanted to be in the competition as i said people often make mistakes it was just a suggestion on a way to avoid it as i have already said the current rule don't affect me as i copy and paste my YDC listing so i always have the correct wording in it.

Appreciate your suggestion.

My experience is that any change adds confusion, rather than lessening it. And there are consequences for all our actions or lack of same.

[hurryb4itsgone]

I have probably read the YDC rules more in the last two days than I have in the two years I have been a YDC participant!

As I previously promised, I have given this some thought.

Please note: No rules have been changed or harmed in this process.

This is only a change to the order and formatting of the current rules and recommendations as stated in the YDC Announcement Thread.

I believe the following premises are correct. Or would it be more correct to say, "I worked based on my understanding of the following premises?"

1. Rules for "All" are also rules for competition entries. Repetition of Part One rules in Part Two is redundant and not necessary.
2. Suggestions, recommendations and requests inserted into the middle of the YDC rules muddies the water.
3. Statements beginning with "Please" imply a request and not a rule.
4. Statements that indicate something doesn't have to be done imply they are not a rule.
5. Recommendations, suggestions and requests do not require a vote of the YDC community.

If you are unclear or unsure of the current rules, etc they can be found here at the end of the 1st post.

The first post of future YDC Announcement Threads will include an additional section:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Recommendations, Notes and Requests:

• You do not have to support the nominated charity. You are free to choose any cause you wish.
• Please try to offer your auctions to as many international destinations as possible for maximum YDC visibility.
• Please do not charge more than cost price for shipping / postage.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

And "Part Two: Rules for the Competition" rules that are duplicate rules from "Part One: Rules for All" will no longer be duplicated.

Please address any complaints to the man behind the curtain.

As always, I am open to hearing your constructive comments and thoughtful suggestions.

[raindropsies]

That being said, here is my humble opinion on the matter:

The "spirit" of YDC, as indicated in the rules, is not unilateral. It has at least two facets. One is to raise as much money as possible for charity. The second is a competitive component.

My original question was about the competitive component of the "spirit".

The words missed in many listings is not "This is an entry", but "this is an entry in the YDC nn charity auction competition.

As the rules are currently written and I understand them, the competition component is optional and not mandatory for any listing in the YDC event. Every listing must be for charity or a worthy cause. Every listing does not need to be an entry in the competition.

Not quite sure what is meant by "If the rules are to be enforced, then they need to be enforced correctly." What would be an example of incorrectly enforcing the rules?

In the rules, unless I have missed it in Franks post or a later version of the rules, the word competition does not appear.

However, to address the point of if rules are to be enforced, they need to be enforced correctly.
I need to say I would not want this to effect the winner (well the winner in my eyes)
Cheavers auction that seems to have come out on top, doesn't have the wording correct, it states

This item is an entry in the YDC competition and all monies raised will go to Janet's Trust

Given this says "item" rather than "auction" as it should do to comply with this rule 100%, you are left making a decision.
Then after Cheavers and my auction the next highest for YDC130 would be yours, however you have a # added as extra and the word competition, so that would exclude your auction
After your auction is Cornishmaids, however that would have to be excluded to as the word auction is missing
Then next is Suesjools, again missing the word auction
Next is Sucadots item that has the word item instead of auction
Next is a seller who has said is not
Next is Anniemcc2 who has the word auction missing
Next is HITwc who has most of the line missing
Next is liverdodo chocolate auction, it has the word item rather than auction
Next is Brian64 who has the same with item written instead of auction
Next is Meebo1s auction that has the word auction missing in the first part of the line
Callihay is next, no line at all that I can see
Next is Maelbrigda T towel, again no exact text
That took me to the end of the first page
That is why I say the spirit of YDC should be more important than the wording being 100% correct

[raindropsies]

Just to add, I think that everyone that I have known to take part in YDC has always taken part within the spirit of what it is intended for

[hurryb4itsgone]

In the rules, unless I have missed it in Franks post or a later version of the rules, the word competition does not appear.

However, to address the point of if rules are to be enforced, they need to be enforced correctly.
I need to say I would not want this to effect the winner (well the winner in my eyes)
Cheavers auction that seems to have come out on top, doesn't have the wording correct, it states
Given this says "item" rather than "auction" as it should do to comply with this rule 100%, you are left making a decision.
Then after Cheavers and my auction the next highest for YDC130 would be yours, however you have a # added as extra and the word competition, so that would exclude your auction
After your auction is Cornishmaids, however that would have to be excluded to as the word auction is missing
Then next is Suesjools, again missing the word auction
Next is Sucadots item that has the word item instead of auction
Next is a seller who has said is not
Next is Anniemcc2 who has the word auction missing
Next is HITwc who has most of the line missing
Next is liverdodo chocolate auction, it has the word item rather than auction
Next is Brian64 who has the same with item written instead of auction
Next is Meebo1s auction that has the word auction missing in the first part of the line
Callihay is next, no line at all that I can see
Next is Maelbrigda T towel, again no exact text
That took me to the end of the first page
That is why I say the spirit of YDC should be more important than the wording being 100% correct

Thank you for your post and taking the time to review the listings from the most recent YDC event.

It would appear you have "missed it in later versions of the rules." The word competition has been part of the rules for over two years. It is not something newly added.

The precedent is that this rule has not been consistently enforced. This would be one of the reasons I raised my original questions.

And your list of specific auctions points to another one of the reasons why I raised my questions up during the YDC. Thank you for making one of my points for me. Though I’m unclear how it answered my question to you.

The rule as written is ”the description of your item must include the following text:
This auction is an entry in the YDC nn charity auction competition. All money raised by this auction will go to: charity.” By the way, nowhere does it indicate only these words are to be in the description.

You say “the spirit of YDC should be more important than the wording being 100%”. What is this spirit to you, since evidently you disagree with the premises raised in post #40, that was partially quoted?

Just to add, I think that everyone that I have known to take part in YDC has always taken part within the spirit of what it is intended for

Then you probably have missed the listings that we have "pushed out" before the event started.