The Carrier Bag Scandal

[astral276]

...we will have a lot to look forward to once we can get back to the polls and get this shower out.

Deja vu? Could have sworn you were predicting this at the start of this year for the elections.

[sidthelamp]

Strange. From your postings, evidently you imagine yourself to be environmentally responsible. Yet you're repulsed by the idea of a change that will improve the environment.

Yes, it would be nice if a law wasn't required, if everyone (or even just the majority) could be relied on to act considerately. Unfortunately, many UK citizens can't be relied on. When I go for a walk and invariably return with bags full of empty cans, juice bottles, etc I'm in no doubt of the selfish nature of many.

Biodegradable vs non-bio. They both need feed stock to make them and energy to run the factory producing them. It's best if plastic bags are discouraged, whether either kind. And when they're left to blow around the streets and countryside, either way they're unsightly.

I for one welcome our new overlords charging 5p!

think you missed the point country feedback was making the cost of a plastic bag has always been a cost figured into the goods you buy, although they have always appeared to be free that has never been the case, and whats more your not told they have always figured in the total you pay at the outlet, adding yet another 5p presumably has always been the cost, of said bags, adding another 5p means your paying 10p a bag, some one some were is making a lot of money from this stealth charge/tax which is ok of course because its in the name of the enviroment.

[countryfeedback87]

Deja vu? Could have sworn you were predicting this at the start of this year for the elections.

Because I was actually hopeful that the people of this small group of Islands would have done the right thing, but instead they have chosen to keep the rich richer, and the poor poorer. With even more extreme austerity cuts promised and an economic plan that isn't working, the electorate will wake up to what they've done and I hope be very very ashamed of themselves

[countryfeedback87]

Strange. From your postings, evidently you imagine yourself to be environmentally responsible. Yet you're repulsed by the idea of a change that will improve the environment.

Yes, it would be nice if a law wasn't required, if everyone (or even just the majority) could be relied on to act considerately. Unfortunately, many UK citizens can't be relied on. When I go for a walk and invariably return with bags full of empty cans, juice bottles, etc I'm in no doubt of the selfish nature of many.

There will always be litter, making it illegal to be given a carrier bag for free will not change that. And I repeat, if people don't want to recycle, that's their choice and although I don't agree, I respect it as it's how they want to live their life.

Littering is a different aspect, and is obviously an offence in itself. More effort could be put into challenging this. I have walked around some European streets and beaches that are absolutely spotless from litter and dog fouling (The most litter I see here is usually takeaway wrappers). Instead of just throwing out more legislation and adding more cost to the little man, how about some pro-active Governing in these situations?

How many campaigns do you see nationally about litter and dog fouling? How often do you see someone being given a ticket for littering? All Councils have the power to prosecute for littering (be it fixed penalties or summons). but I'd be interested to see the figures on this. I think education and engagement is a better approach, and maybe it is time to install bins on the streets of some of the towns/cities that do not due to the past threat of bomb attacks?

[tony41]

There will always be litter, making it illegal to be given a carrier bag for free will not change that. And I repeat, if people don't want to recycle, that's their choice and although I don't agree, I respect it as it's how they want to live their life.

Littering is a different aspect, and is obviously an offence in itself. More effort could be put into challenging this. I have walked around some European streets and beaches that are absolutely spotless from litter and dog fouling (The most litter I see here is usually takeaway wrappers). Instead of just throwing out more legislation and adding more cost to the little man, how about some pro-active Governing in these situations?

How many campaigns do you see nationally about litter and dog fouling? How often do you see someone being given a ticket for littering? All Councils have the power to prosecute for littering (be it fixed penalties or summons). but I'd be interested to see the figures on this. I think education and engagement is a better approach, and maybe it is time to install bins on the streets of some of the towns/cities that do not due to the past threat of bomb attacks?

Being given a free carrier bag does increase the littering problem. It increases the number of carrier bags that can be casually discarded.
If it OK that people do not wish to recycle, they should pay the cost of their decision.
The cost to the small man is not being increased, they are not included in the legislation.

[countryfeedback87]

Being given a free carrier bag does increase the littering problem. It increases the number of carrier bags that can be casually discarded.
If it OK that people do not wish to recycle, they should pay the cost of their decision.
The cost to the small man is not being increased, they are not included in the legislation.

But it won't solve the problem of littering.

If I'm buying some Pepsi, I wouldn't expect for it to be poured straight down my throat by the checkout operator as opposed to being given a bottle to carry it in. This would reduce the amount of empty cola bottles in the street though.

To paraphrase, bags don't litter, people litter.

[PetBazaar]

...adding yet another 5p presumably has always been the cost, of said bags, adding another 5p means your paying 10p a bag...

Just for info, I used to buy carriers for roughly £16 per 1000. Presumably the large supermarkets could get them for a lot less than the 1.6p that I paid

There will always be litter, making it illegal to be given a carrier bag for free will not change that. And I repeat, if people don't want to recycle, that's their choice and although I don't agree, I respect it as it's how they want to live their life.

Not sure about that. Can't speak for Wales or NI, and obviously it's just started in England. But in Scotland, ASDA are reporting a 90% reduction in the number of single use carriers that shoppers are taking. Morrisons are reporting an 80% reduction with Tesco just reporting a "huge reduction". That's an awful lot of carriers not being thrown away or going to landfill

[PetBazaar]

Because I was actually hopeful that the people of this small group of Islands would have done the right thing, but instead they have chosen to keep the rich richer, and the poor poorer. With even more extreme austerity cuts promised and an economic plan that isn't working, the electorate will wake up to what they've done and I hope be very very ashamed of themselves

Got to change that record, or else you're going to lose in 2020 too. Saying that the electorate "will wake up" and be "ashamed" just drips with the sense of entitlement that has destroyed Labour up here.

I could be charitable and say that the electorate did what they believed was right. More likely they did what they thought was right for themselves. All of those voters, presumably came to the conclusion that Labour was a worse choice than the guaranteed austerity and cuts that was coming. But telling them that they need to be ashamed and look to Labour for forgiveness isn't going to swing a single one back.

Labour in Scotland are about 8 years ahead of you if that's the election strategy that you're planning on going down.

But because I actually have a bit of a soft spot for Labour, my election strategy advice (if you're a Labour member, and a local branch activist) is this. Watch what the Scottish Labour leaders do in the run up to the Scottish Elections next May... And then do the opposite.

[westlondoncarparts]

As I have posted previously on this forum, a better solution in the UK would be for it to be a legal requirement that all plastic packaging for food related items and barrier bags at the supermarkets should be bio-degradable.

Although a reduction in supermarket carrier bags is helpful, it is just a drop in the ocean compared to all the plastic packaging that our food comes in. There seems to be a lack of joined up thinking in legislating about plastic bags and ignoring all the other uses of plastic in the supermarket food supply chain.

And of course there is then the added cost of the supermarkets having to make returns to DEFRA (Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) who presumably will have to spend taxpayers’ money on a team of civil servants to review the returns from the supermarkets and to act as Regulators.

Meanwhile, in another Government Department and in 10 Downing Street there is unbridled enthusiasm for something that is going to cause far more environmental damage than supermarket carrier bags both underground (chemical poisons) and above ground (continued carbon emissions) – fracking. Lack of joined up Government thinking again on environmental issues.

People who litter should be prosecuted and fined. Apart from being anti-social, there is a huge cost to local authorities, and thereby council tax payers, from having to clean up litter. As stated above, the offence is the discarding of bags as litter, not the issuing of bags at a supermarket.

Going off topic and with regard to Scotland, I would have thought it crystal clear by now that there is a major divergence of opinion over Trident within the Labour Party and that they will have debate over whether there is to be an official party line on that. Much better to be honest and open about that than to try to fudge the issue. To give Jeremy Corbyn credit, he is the only politician in a leadership position since May 1979 who I have heard talking about retaining skills bases for the national good and for the workers concerned when there is a significant loss of employment such as there would be in Scotland with the decommissioning of the nuclear strike capability. Margaret Thatcher never cared about such matters and neither did Tony Blair. And to give him credit again, Jeremy Corbyn is intending to spend a lot of time in Scotland in the years ahead engaging with the Scottish electorate. He might not be walking around in sharp Armani suits and surrounded by spin doctors all the time like some of his predecessors but even the most jaded of the former Labour electorate in Scotland are going to find it hard to criticise him for ignoring Scotland.

Ed Miliband stood up on national television in one of the televised debates for the May election and effectively said that he would support the return of a Conservative Government rather than work in collaboration with the SNP to depose David Cameron. Whilst by that stage support for the Labour Party in Scotland had already largely been lost, the message was not lost on the English part of the electorate and that was one of the pivot points which was behind Labour failing to win the last election.

[sidthelamp]

Just for info, I used to buy carriers for roughly £16 per 1000. Presumably the large supermarkets could get them for a lot less than the 1.6p that I paid







Not sure about that. Can't speak for Wales or NI, and obviously it's just started in England. But in Scotland, ASDA are reporting a 90% reduction in the number of single use carriers that shoppers are taking. Morrisons are reporting an 80% reduction with Tesco just reporting a "huge reduction". That's an awful lot of carriers not being thrown away or going to landfill

they probably do, does not mean they dont charge for them,there in it for the profitt