Scottish Independence... What are your thoughts?

[DandC_Warehouse]

Scottish citizens will be able to apply for a Scottish passport from day one of independence, with a Scottish passport costing the same as a UK passport. People will be able to continue using their existing UK passport until it expires. They can then choose to get a Scottish passport when their existing passport is due for renewal.

Scotland’s Future explains that we’ll remain part of the Common Travel Area between the nations of the British Isles. Being part of the Common Travel Area means people won’t need a passport to travel to the rest of the UK or Ireland.

You dont need a passport to travel to and from ireland so why would scotland be different.

[astral276]

Scotland’s Future explains that we’ll remain part of the Common Travel Area between the nations of the British Isles. Being part of the Common Travel Area means people won’t need a passport to travel to the rest of the UK or Ireland..

But has that been agreed by the UK government? Or is it yet again only what the SNP says and just expects everyone will go along with it?

[astral276]

You dont need a passport to travel to and from ireland so why would scotland be different.

In practice, while not a legal requirement, you do usually need a passport or photo ID to travel to Ireland.

The reason Scotland could be different post independence is that they would no longer, as a separate nation, be a party to the current CTA agreement. They might have to negotiate with all the current parties to be included.

[PetBazaar]

But has that been agreed by the UK government? Or is it yet again only what the SNP says and just expects everyone will go along with it?

Been away for a bit, so just spotted this...


This is yet another one of the problems with the debate.

The SNP says that it would like to happen. Unfortunately UK government policy is not to have any discussions or debates before the referendum takes place. So it's impossible to tell what will happen.

The best you can do is accept that it's a "policy" and trust that it will be negotiated satisfactorily after the event.

[squern]

Never mind passports from England (or Wales) to Scotland, what about the other way round?

I feel that if the Scots insist that they want to be independent, break away from the UK, and be just like any other soveriegn nation, they should be treated as such.

That's not to say that I don't sympathise with their position, and would not speak against it. But they can't have their cake and eat it.

They will either be a separate independent nation, or they won't. If they are, they should be treated the same way we treat any other soverieign nation. They should have their own head of state, currency, and postal system - and passports.

[astral276]

The SNP says that it would like to happen. Unfortunately UK government policy is not to have any discussions or debates before the referendum takes place. So it's impossible to tell what will happen.

I can understand that in a way. To resolve these many disparate matters costs a lot of time and money. If the result of the referendum were to remain in the union then that would all be a waste. In many cases there is no answer as there is no precedence. So until Scotland actually becomes a separate country, and starts negotiating with outside organisations as such, no forecast of what the case would be can be formulated and stated as fact.

The best you can do is accept that it's a "policy" and trust that it will be negotiated satisfactorily after the event.

That's a rather amazing leap of faith given the importance of the issue and how totally the lives of those in Scotland, and the generations that follow, will be affected. Not one I would be willing to take. The people of Scotland need answers from the SNP, not the SNP's wish lists. They are promising things they do not have the power to deliver.

[astral276]

That's not to say that I don't sympathise with their position, and would not speak against it. But they can't have their cake and eat it.

But that is exactly what the SNP expects to be able to do. If there is something that currently benefits Scotland as part of the union, then they expect to be able to just continue enjoying those benefits uninterrupted. Anything they don't like they expect no longer to be a party to.

Scotland's Future should win every award going for a work of fiction.

[PetBazaar]

That's a rather amazing leap of faith given the importance of the issue and how totally the lives of those in Scotland, and the generations that follow, will be affected. Not one I would be willing to take. The people of Scotland need answers from the SNP, not the SNP's wish lists. They are promising things they do not have the power to deliver.

We need answers from both sides.

But really, a leap of faith is what it might just boil down to. Neither side are really being entirely honest. The SNP side is very much a wishlist, but the "Better Together" side is pretty close to just shouting "No" really, really loudly.

There is a but though... The "Yes" side has a very active set of grass-roots campaigners, the same cannot be said for the "No" side. So while the Yes side are engaging in debate and discussion at a local level, the "No" side are relying on media compliance. Until now it's been working in favour of the "No" side, but there are signs that this is starting to change and the "Yes" side now appears to be developing some momentum.

Scotland's Future should win every award going for a work of fiction.

You're not far off the mark there, and that goes for both sides of the argument.

Incidentally, have you read the White Paper?

[MPS16]

We need answers from both sides......

Why would the No vote side need to give any answers.

The Union is a fact and thus speaks for its self.

Its down to Mr Salmonellas side to have the answers. But he has none, because its all pure speculation.

[astral276]

We need answers from both sides.

True, but as it is the SNP pushing for a change to the status quo the onus is on them to be honest with the people of Scotland and present them with facts and not hopes.

Incidentally, have you read the White Paper?

Yes and no. I can't say I have read and analysed every word. As I have no part in the decision I don't feel I need to study it at that level. I have read through it though and certain sections have leapt out as being pure speculation; not based on fact, but on what the SNP thinks should come to pass on the assumption that everybody else does what the SNP wants them to do (even if they disadvantage themselves in doing so) - but no roadmap of what happens if they don't.