ebay vs coin dealers

[poorrichardstuff]

I dont know what fees you pay in the USA on ebay. but in england the fee system was on a sliding scale so a £600 sale cost you £37 ebay fees + paypal fees and if you went was over £600 it would be £37 for the first £600 and only 1.9% of the rest. there is no capping of fees to business sellers. they did cap fees to a max of £40 for private sellers. i am a business seller on there so never had my fees capped. the new fee structure is a straight 10% per sale regardless of the amount it sells for with no capping at all to any type of seller. original A £1500 sale cost £54 in ebay fees + paypal fees on the new fee system it will cost £150 ebay fees + paypal fees. this is just to much money to be charged to sell a single item. it also applies to a lot of categories. there are some categories that get a lower rate but most are on 10% some are even at 12% and no capping. i'm sure over here on the uk site they are going to loose quite a few high end sales over this. or the cost of these items will just go up to cover the extra extortionate fees creating a lot less sales in this price bracket. they have dropped the cost of a listing but this makes no difference to me a massive 10p saving per listing doesn't get anywhere near to cover the extra i will pay in finale value fees. this new fees system obviously only benefits sellers who listing hundreds of cheap items with a value of less than £50 in this case you would be better off with the new fee structure.

I very much enjoyed reading your response and from some one who talks sense, sorry my grammars not very good not my strongest point i was always a numbers person.

Thank you for the appreciated response, which I find enlightening. In my opinion, diction, spelling, punctuation are of little value relative to essence facts, which I believe you've presented well.

EBay has elected to heavily burden the low cost listing with disproportionate fees, and PayPal has also charged a greater minimum plus the usual percentage fee, where the sum of the fees will often exceed the final selling price of a low priced item. Thus, these relatively small sales are charged a greater percentage for the site fees, but not necessarily in proportion to their corporate expenditure requirements for efforts, relative to larger sales. This site is seemingly realizing a migration of these malcontent minimal sales generating sellers who appear to forget the features that their fees purchased in another venue. The low sales "no fee" auctions (i.e. free listings) in that venue realize the same general exposure as that of a large sales seller, only exacting a fee when there's a sale.

In my opinion, the fee structure which I've realized for larger sales, makes stellar business sense, as it attracts a relatively low maintenance performer who generally produces greater corporate income.

I hope that I and others can generate auctions on this site of desirable commodities, which in conjunction with site improved sellers aids, will justify the additional efforts for all. PM commodities having relatively greater intrinsic value generally illicit improved buyer response.

The thorough succinct explanation of your fee understanding, gave me additional appreciation for relative site value.

Thanks Again, Rich

[ukcoins]

Thank you for the appreciated response, which I find enlightening. In my opinion, diction, spelling, punctuation are of little value relative to essence facts, which I believe you've presented well.

EBay has elected to heavily burden the low cost listing with disproportionate fees, and PayPal has also charged a greater minimum plus the usual percentage fee, where the sum of the fees will often exceed the final selling price of a low priced item. Thus, these relatively small sales are charged a greater percentage for the site fees, but not necessarily in proportion to their corporate expenditure requirements for efforts, relative to larger sales. This site is seemingly realizing a migration of these malcontent minimal sales generating sellers who appear to forget the features that their fees purchased in another venue. The low sales "no fee" auctions (i.e. free listings) in that venue realize the same general exposure as that of a large sales seller, only exacting a fee when there's a sale.

In my opinion, the fee structure which I've realized for larger sales, makes stellar business sense, as it attracts a relatively low maintenance performer who generally produces greater corporate income.

I hope that I and others can generate auctions on this site of desirable commodities, which in conjunction with site improved sellers aids, will justify the additional efforts for all. PM commodities having relatively greater intrinsic value generally illicit improved buyer response.

The thorough succinct explanation of your fee understanding, gave me additional appreciation for relative site value.

Thanks Again, Rich

Hi Rich, i total agree with you on the low cost listings, with all the changes ebay have made over the last 2 years it seems to me they want to get rid of the private small seller selling low cost items, ebay are trying there hardest to change and become a big store like amazon, i'm sure if they could they would get rid of auction style listings altogether and make every seller have a shop and only sell with a fixed price, a lot of the big power sellers don't do auctions any more its all fixed price buy it now, to be honest 95% of my sales are on buy it now as i don't do many auctions myself, i think within the next 2-3 years they will have got there and be just like amazon, i feel sorry for the the seller of low cost items they are just going to have a smaller profit margin or in some case none at all, every body is screaming over the fee increase but where else can they go and realise even 50% of the sales they can get on ebay there just isn't any where at the moment, most sellers will just put the price up to cover the extra fees i have already seen a lot of sellers doing this, i just cant see how the lower value seller will be able to do this i think they are going to suffer the most,

Again your right selling higher value items will generate you more profit a lot less grief from buyers and take up a lot less of your time, i have been a volume seller in the past i used to import goods from all over the world to sell, the mark up was always quite small and very time consuming i soon realised that was not the way to go and quickly change to selling a better quality product with a much greater mark up, i have also learnt from my own experience its very rare you get any grief or negatives from buyers of higher value items if theres ever a problem they are always very understanding and more than happy if you sort out the problem for them, but the lower value buyers just don't seem to be happy no matter what you do for them apart from letting them keep the goods and refunding them,

I have seen in the threads a lot of people on this site getting excited thinking they will get a flood of ebayers jumping ship and coming to ebid, i cant see that happening myself even if this does happen it want be long before they go back if they cant generate enough sales and this is more likely to be the case, i agree the site needs some improved seller aids and some changes to make it easier for the buyers, any body who sells for a living just cant get the amount of sales on here needed to generate a income i know i'm miles away from this, most sellers are just going to put up with the new ebay fees and carry as normal ebay is not stupid they know theres no alternative site where they can go to earn a living, hopefully as ebid grows over time the sales will increase, for now i just list some coins and treat a sale as a bonus, would be nice if some other ebay sellers would do the same join ebid and list some of there stock this will help the site to grow at a quicker rate the more better quality items there are will hopefully start to attract more buyers,

Been nice reading your response and talking with you all the best with any future listings hope you get lots of sales

Regards James

[anaro57]

ebay kick me, I can not sell on ebay and I'm ruined, I just kicked
because I connect from outside my house and gathered my IP address with another.
Here in Spain is difficult to solve this problem they do not care what happens to you, that eBid me feel very comfortable but in a month and a half I've only sold a coin, now let me pose the business and find something I allowed to eat.

eBid hope to grow and make real competition to ebay soon.

[princeofwaldo]

Hmmm! Very Interesting!! I sell expensive items on eBay (e.g. ~£1500) because the eBay auction fees in our country, unless I'm mistaken because of the recent changes this month, are capped at $50 USD per transaction, with no listing fees, and only the obnoxious ~3% PayPal fee on the total amount exchanged. My net fees on a ~$2500 USD sale are ~5%. I've yet to locate another viable site where large value items can be sold with less fees. My net cost per sold auction on this site have exceeded 5% of the gross sales price.

My experience with eBay is that there are many scamming buyers who use a plethora of tactics to cheat the sellers since eBay implemented its' "buyer protection" policy, and eBay/PayPal employees are inundated with buyer complaining calls/messages, at great corporate expense relative to sales of manufactured products. Numismatic items, generally unlike the average relatively consistent normal manufactured items, are worn and have a subjective grading system. Buyers use the lack of objectivity to complain about what was received, and many other ploys to acquire both the commodity, and the return of their funds. I only sell top tier TPG graded items, or items where I can absorb the loss, package in the presence of a Notary Public, photographing that being packaged, and have the Notary Public deliver to the postal system, registered with signature verification. EBay provides special services/access to the preferred Power Sellers who meet their criteria for continued buyer satisfaction. The access/rewards seemingly are a considerable financial burden, which they have recently reduced, and increased fees, I believe to bolster their profit margin.

This venue seems to have avoided the expensive response system required to assure buyer/seller contract compliance and satisfaction, by relatively allowing actions not tolerated or personally investigated on eBay. Time will tell if the prevailing atmosphere here is conducive to long term growth. I will continue to learn, and hopefully be mutually rewarded for my efforts here.

Your knowledge/experience is appreciated, thanks for sharing same.

Agree with you 100% on the tremendous increase in buyer scams on eBay. The elimination of negative feedback as an option for sellers to give buyers has so totally skewed the balance of power between buyer and seller, that anyone selling their is at the mercy of unscrupulous buyers who, much like you described, have quickly learned how to game the system.

Can only speak for myself, but it has not been fees alone that have driven me from the eBay site, though to be sure the fees sure has made it easier to say goodbye to what once was the greatest internet site in the universe.

[DanMart]

eBlah is trying to emulate the amazon business model but will fail because with amazon, the buyer pays amazon directly so there is a huge
incentive for amazon to make 100% sure the sale is successful.

Nobody at eBlah knows anything about coins. They are trying to make a global marketplace yet have no knowledge of the
international markets. Product knowledge is just one essential component.

1099 reporting requirements in January 2012 will cause 35 to 45% of their sellers to leave, mostly the small and medium
sellers treated poorly. And they won't come back.

eBlah is trying to promote a bullion marketplace yet with high seller final value fees and paypal fees, this plan cannot compete
when gross profit margins are typically one half to one percent on gold and a little more on silver bullion.

eBlah fees will contine to rise until they meet amazon's 15% fees.

[burgyeb]

eBlah is trying to emulate the amazon business model but will fail because with amazon, the buyer pays amazon directly so there is a huge
incentive for amazon to make 100% sure the sale is successful.

Nobody at eBlah knows anything about coins. They are trying to make a global marketplace yet have no knowledge of the
international markets. Product knowledge is just one essential component.

1099 reporting requirements in January 2012 will cause 35 to 45% of their sellers to leave, mostly the small and medium
sellers treated poorly. And they won't come back.

eBlah is trying to promote a bullion marketplace yet with high seller final value fees and paypal fees, this plan cannot compete
when gross profit margins are typically one half to one percent on gold and a little more on silver bullion.

eBlah fees will contine to rise until they meet amazon's 15% fees.

Agree with most of your points. IMHO see nothing wrong with the Bay bringing in tax regulations that reflect professional business practice. The coin market is particularly difficult because the profit margin is so thin for the seller. So their inability or unwillingness to stomach the continuing rise in the Bay's fees is more pronounced than across most other product lines. The only way I can see a seller of coins making it over this hurdle is to frequent estate sales, run a pawn operation, etc. As far as trying to match Amazon's fee structure; I would do it too if I could get away with it.

[DanMart]

Agree with most of your points. IMHO see nothing wrong with the Bay bringing in tax regulations that reflect professional business practice. The coin market is particularly difficult because the profit margin is so thin for the seller. So their inability or unwillingness to stomach the continuing rise in the Bay's fees is more pronounced than across most other product lines. The only way I can see a seller of coins making it over this hurdle is to frequent estate sales, run a pawn operation, etc. As far as trying to match Amazon's fee structure; I would do it too if I could get away with it.

eBlah had zero say about reporting requirements and it is not coin industry specific. PayPal was forced by the Federal Government
with reporting 200 or more transactions and sales exceeding $20,000 in 2011. Me thinks many sellers are unaware of the 1099 reporting
and will be in for a rude awakening. Read: mass exodus when 1099 envelopes get opened in January 2012.

Selling bullion coins and bars is a business with product sourced from bullion wholesalers, once again with razor thin gross profit margins.

Think about it: If PayPal charges 2 or 2.5% and the typical gross profit margin on 1 oz gold Eagles, Maple Leafs, or Krand coins is 1% or 2%,
how can an eBlah seller possibly be competitive with bricks and mortar or websites if eBlah sellers also have to pay seller final value fees
of 3% or higher? The math does not work for eBlah bullion unless buyers pay too much.

Another point: the eBlah coin market is saturated. When you see 25 pieces of 1893-S dollars or 12 Chain Cents, that is too many.

Over and out.

[burgyeb]

@ DanMart, if the Federal Government initiated (and it is) then this applies to all online selling venues. My point is that the Bay has taken an open stance to enforce this government mandate. Many smaller venues have not; probably including eBid. Bottom line is each individual seller is responsible for their own business. To avoid those tax mandates, a seller can choose to sell under the ceiling of 200 transactions + $20,000 in sales. Both required ceilings have to be met. So 500 transactions with gross sales of $19,987.00 would exempt the seller from 1099 reporting. Most sellers on eBid will not be impacted by this ruling.

Note: A seller can still have 1099 reporting requirement and not receive a form 1099.

Although the Bay's coin market may be saturated; whenever I have listed coins, I have a sell through rate of 90-100% The profit margin is still too slim in most case to work with their fee structure. I only sell coins on there that I was able to obtain at a substantial discount.

[DanMart]

Shore guy,

PayPal is the entity enforcing the IRS reporting requirements, although it is eBay that will seriously be impacted.

Sorry to hear you cannot make enough profit margin selling coins on eBay. It's a tough market even for full time professionals
with the steep seller fees and PayPal fees. Glad you understand the concept of saturated.

That's why I mostly deal in more esoteric, non-mainstream stuff like Colonials, exonumia, out of print coin reference books,
scarce varieties, lots not listed in the Redbook or CDN.

eBay in the past week or 10 days has make an attempt to globalize sales while maintaining their strict buyer protection program with
ultra strict seller requirements where the buyer can poop all over the seller and the seller is basically powerless.

When an eBay coin seller pops a coin in a first class envelope or registered mail to ship outside their country and it takes 10 to 60
days for the coin to arrive or the coin gets lost or stolen, their buyer protection/globalization combo will implode.

Coin buyers want cheap or free shipping but they will not tolerate waiting 10 to 60 days for a coin or having a coin lost or stolen in
the mail.

I tried eBid years ago and it was so quiet it was not worth the time to list items. I hope this has changed. So far, I have had almost zero
views. Any suggestions, as you are a seasoned eBid veteran?

Any thoughts on the new eBay bullion program? With gross profit margins of 1 to 2% max on gold bullion and eBay seller fees of 3 to 12% plus PayPal fees, how can eBay bullion seller truly be competitive and make money?



All the best,
DanMart

[Juliebabe25]

If you want to get coin sales going on ebid, then you have to list good coins at good prices and leave them on here until buyers find the place.

If you keep going back to eblah, then they will keep putting their fees up.

Ebid is a good place to sell low cost collectibles, why not build it up as a good place for coins as well ?