Fine Jewelry should mean Fine Jewelry

[1840clb]

I agree with the spelling, I had never seen it spelled that way until I came here but that isn't the problem either. I just added [fine jewelry] to the title of my listings yesterday because I couldn't find any of my listings at all. This the 2 reposting of my items and I still couldn't find them so I added that to see if that would help. I just got through typing in gold jewelry, to me that should be real gold but if you type that in you will see every thing under the sun. Most of the items there are under fine jewelry heading but 75% of it is fake gold and fake gems. Some of them have W/GOLD in the title, to me that is white gold, but if you read the fine print it is gold plated. That is very misleading and should not be allowed at all, that is fraud. Watches should have their own category. There is a big difference as to my idea of fine jewelry and alot of the sellers on here. Maybe a tutorial for jewelry sellers to read before they are allowed to sell at all. As for the spelling of the word Jewellery, I spelled it that way first to see if the listing would come up but no items were found. I really think that it is the way that the jewelry category is set up but it is not working so something needs to be done to fix it.

[Opis]

I also think there is a grey area. A friend has an inherited 14K gold ring with a tiger-eye stone. This stone isn't particularly valuable, but it was beautifully cut and polished, and it is a genuine natural stone. Her guess is that it was specially made because her aunt loved tiger-eyes. She isn't going to sell it, but if she did, which category would it belong in?

As long as it's proper 14ct Gold it's classed as Fine Jewellery.

I actually think the catagories are OK, but I would warn everyone using any auction site to be careful when buying fine jewellery over the internet.

Some people are listing items that mislead buyers into thinking they are buying real solid gold. And just because an item is made with genuine gemstones does not mean it will be set into precious metal btw.

Terms to watch out for in listings are sentences which include the terms:

HGE (ie a type of plated metal)....GF...gold filled..... RG.....rolled gold......vermeil (sterling silver plated in gold).......GB ....gold bonded.....layered gold.

None of these is true gold. Always look/ ask for proper hallmarks if you are in anyway unsure. The British UK hallmarking system is the oldest form of trading standards in the world, and still the most reliable for authenticating precious metals (note I'm not too clued up on hallmarking systems outside UK so forgive me as I can't go into detail about these).

Items simply stamped with the number '9' and a 'K eg '9k/ 10k/ 14k etc do not always mean they are gold - there are loads of fakes around that are stamped this way. I learnt this to my cost when I first started out in jewellery. I almost never buy gold unless it's fully UK assayed/ hallmarked, just to be sure

To me, and people/ jewellers I come into contact with, fine jewellery is most importantly determined by its precious metals (ie solid gold, silver and platinum), then with precious and semi - precious stones (low-end fine gold jewellery contains CZs or lab created stones, which should always be mentioned). Also included are some beads (eg ruby, topaz, genuine amber etc) and genuine highly carved cameos made from shell, gemstones or agates.

It's a confusing minefield really; some costume jewellery is 'high-end' and sells for loads more than fine!

Then some fine jewellery is 'low-end' and you can't give the stuff away! Work that one out lol!

Though to save a lot of hassle, I wish all auction sites would have catagories for gold-plating/ rolled gold. There would be no excuse then for putting RG in with the solid gold stuff

[1840clb]

I agree with you about the gold plating category, but lets face it, there is no reason to put that in fine jewelry at all. It could be listed as fashion jewelry or costume jewelry, but it is not fine jewelry. There is several differences between UK and USA. I had never seen 9k until I came here. In the US we don't have anything less that 10k. There need to be a universal way to list things that everyone understands and goes by it. For some reason there are people that think CZ's are fine jewelry. In the US if it is not solid gold and mined gems then it is not fine jewelry.

[TiasTreasures]

I agree with you about the gold plating category, but lets face it, there is no reason to put that in fine jewelry at all. It could be listed as fashion jewelry or costume jewelry, but it is not fine jewelry. There is several differences between UK and USA. I had never seen 9k until I came here. In the US we don't have anything less that 10k. There need to be a universal way to list things that everyone understands and goes by it. For some reason there are people that think CZ's are fine jewelry. In the US if it is not solid gold and mined gems then it is not fine jewelry.

I'm interested in this thread and trying to learn something because I have a few antique pieces that may or may not be "fine jewelry". They're not listed yet (maybe never will be).

It does seem that what is needed is a "universal way" to define the different categories. Perhaps if we got more detailed definitions, we can find something that works everywhere.

When does an item qualify as "solid gold"? I just looked it up on Google. 10 K is only 10 parts gold and 14 parts other metals, less than half. So does that mean it's not solid gold? To be 100% gold, it would have to be 24K and that's never done because it would be too soft. Is there a dividing line?

Does "mined gems" include semi-precious stones, such as turquoise, jade, amber, and many others, where the value varies tremendously based on the quality of the individual stone? Do they qualify if they're set in sterling, gold, platinum or rhodium?

I think everyone agrees that manufactured stones (such as CZ's) and plated metal do not belong in fine jewelry. However, it appears that there is then a difference in terminology. If "costume jewelry" is only used in the US, don't we need to find other terms that would be understandable everywhere?

Maybe take another look at Ideal's suggestions, and try to go forward from those categories?

Jewelry-> High End, Fine Gold & Silver, Rare Gems
Jewelry -> Gold, Silver, Cubic Zirconia
Jewelry -> Pewter, Plated, Beads
Jewelry-> Hand Made
Jewelry -> Everyday Wear, Costume, Imitation

[1840clb]

I'm interested in this thread and trying to learn something because I have a few antique pieces that may or may not be "fine jewelry". They're not listed yet (maybe never will be).

It does seem that what is needed is a "universal way" to define the different categories. Perhaps if we got more detailed definitions, we can find something that works everywhere.

When does an item qualify as "solid gold"? I just looked it up on Google. 10 K is only 10 parts gold and 14 parts other metals, less than half. So does that mean it's not solid gold? To be 100% gold, it would have to be 24K and that's never done because it would be too soft. Is there a dividing line?

Does "mined gems" include semi-precious stones, such as turquoise, jade, amber, and many others, where the value varies tremendously based on the quality of the individual stone? Do they qualify if they're set in sterling, gold, platinum or rhodium?

I think everyone agrees that manufactured stones (such as CZ's) and plated metal do not belong in fine jewelry. However, it appears that there is then a difference in terminology. If "costume jewelry" is only used in the US, don't we need to find other terms that would be understandable everywhere?

Maybe take another look at Ideal's suggestions, and try to go forward from those categories?

Jewelry-> High End, Fine Gold & Silver, Rare Gems
Jewelry -> Gold, Silver, Cubic Zirconia
Jewelry -> Pewter, Plated, Beads
Jewelry-> Hand Made
Jewelry -> Everyday Wear, Costume, Imitation

Mined gems is natural gemstones not man made. When the term solid gold is used it means that it is not plated, dipped, rolled or any of the other terms that are used. In the US 10kt is the lowest that is allowed and still be able to call it real gold. A lot of people like the 10kt because it is stronger and doesn't bend as easily as higher levels of gold. The higher the number the more gold-10-14-18-22-24kt, the more it cost. What about Platinum, it is more costly than gold and used for your very high end jewelry. When you say rare gems then would that include real diamonds, they are not rare? The correct term is precious gems. It should break down something like Fine Jewelry-gold and platinum[not plated] and precious gem stones[not man made]. Jewelry-gold[not plated] simi precious gem stones and cz's. Jewelry-antique and vintage. Jewelry-Hand made. Jewelry-costume and fashion. By putting the things in [ ] there should not be any question that anything other than what is listed should not be in that category.

[JudesNiceThings]

In UK, we generally have three main standards that qualify for assay (hallmarking) as real gold - 9carat, 18 carat, and 21 carat.' White gold' comes within these standards and should bear a hallmark.
Any thing below 9 carat is NOT 'real gold'. - The US 10k standard falls inside this criterion, so perfectly acceptable.
Older silver items usually bear assayed hallmarks ( the lion for sterling silver etc) and for foreign silver or newer silver to be sold here as 'real silver' it has to bear the 925 stamp ( which of course can be faked)
Platinum also has to bear an assay hallmark to be 'real'.

Regarding stones; - one would assume that people would rarely set PRECIOUS stones in anything less than real gold, or platinum - sterling silver is the exception - many items are set with semi-precious stones, amber, crystal and even glass.

This is why I think the classifications should be based on the metal, and not the stones.

(In any case, even the simplest change would 'knock out' a great many of the fakes)

[Opis]

This is why I think the classifications should be based on the metal, and not the stones.

I agree

Can I just clarify and prehaps make clearer one or two things I've seen written here? This applies to UK sellers only btw! There are strict UK laws regarding the sale of precious metals.

We have 4 modern standards of gold assay for jewellery; 9ct, 14ct, 18ct and 22ct. Occasionally you may come across 12ct & 15ct gold. As long as it's assay/ hallmarked it's fine (these purities were discontinued in by the assay office in 1932 and replaced by 14ct gold).

Also note that 12ct is commenly found on ROLLED GOLD items, so if you see RG anywhere on the jewellery it's not 'fine' gold.

Most importantly is the term 10k gold. This is not a recognised purity/ assay in the UK, and this is where it gets complicated/ serious.

You may be breaking the UK law, if, as a seller based in the UK, you sell anything as solid gold stamped with 10K. As far as I know it's ok to buy in 10k gold, but if you wish to sell it on as gold legally you need to send it to one of the assay offices (Edinburgh/ Sheffield/ Birmingham/ London) and get it properly hallmarked. You risk huge fines if you break hallmarking laws.

Any silver sold in the UK, if it weighs over 7.88g, also needs to be fully hallmarked/ assayed, not just stamped 925.

Gold weighing less than a gram needs no hallmark as far as I know.

Platinum needs a full assay hallmark over 0.5g

Like I said this is for UK buyers only. There is loads of confusion over hallmarks, hope this stops people from getting into trouble with the law !

Each of the UK assay offices has it's own website, if you are in anyway unsure about precious metal your best bet is seeing them and emailing them if neccessary. Words on forums, including mine, are not legal advise!

[JudesNiceThings]

Thank you Opis - I was not in FULL posession of those facts - just doing it from memory - but wanting to convey to our US 'cousins' just how complicated things can be!

[Opis]

LOL I learnt the hard way about UK hallmarking laws when I first started out in jewellery; I was sold what I was told was an genuine 18k gold ring, but it turned out to be fake.

At that time I didn't know there was a difference between an '18K' stamp (illegal to sell '18K' stamped metal as 18ct gold) and a full UK assay hallmark (legal). Long story short I had a reaction to the metal when I wore it, threw the ring away and did a lot of research on UK Hallmarks .

I wrote that previous post cos I'd hate for anyone to be fooled and lose money like I once did

Just out of interest what happens in the USA?

Are there Assay offices there? Do you have hallmarks or is a basic (eg 10k) stamp ok/ legal?

[papagran40]

Glad I do not look at Fine jewellery... what a mess it seems....why not just list as gold , silver or what it is....I would think that anyone who knows their stuff...would not even consider looking on an auction site and taking someone elses word for what it is or might be.....yes I know you might get lucky an odd time , but the odds are against you....go to a shop............!!!