offensive weapons

[astral276]

That's a politically correct argument in the making. Sad commentary for sure. So then you cannot buy knives like this in the UK? Is that what you are saying? It is illegal to sell them in your country?

As of 01 October 2007 it was made illegal to sell knives and certain other articles with a blade or point to anyone under the age of 18 here in the UK.

So the question is - How can a seller here on eBid selling such items ascertain the age of the person they are selling to?

The responsibility to comply with the law rests with the seller. As I read it the fact that eBid acts as a venue for the sale does not make them complicit in any breach of the law - but then I am not a lawyer.

[raindropsies]

As of 01 October 2007 it was made illegal to sell knives and certain other articles with a blade or point to anyone under the age of 18 here in the UK.

So the question is - How can a seller here on eBid selling such items ascertain the age of the person they are selling to?

The responsibility to comply with the law rests with the seller. As I read it the fact that eBid acts as a venue for the sale does not make them complicit in any breach of the law - but then I am not a lawyer.

It's not just eBid but any site for that matter. Here on eBid you have to be 18 years old or over as per the t&c's but obviously that does not guarentee this. If there is under 18's buying on here, then they can always pay with a cheque / postal order.

The only way possible would be to ask the buyer to prove that they were over 18.

If a seller did sell to an under 18, then they would be breaking the law. What the exact complications for doing so, I don't know. Where would the law stop? aiding and abeiting?

The only way I see a pratical test of age would be some sort of checking on the electoral register, how pratical this is I have no idea. The same sort of rules apply to 18 cert movies & games also when buying collectable wine bottles etc.

[astral276]

It's not just eBid but any site for that matter.

True - but as we were discussing how such items should be handled in eBid what other auction sites/outlets do is not really relevant here.

Here on eBid you have to be 18 years old or over as per the t&c's

Do you? I can't see that. The only allusion to age I can see is where the T&Cs state 'Our services are available only to individuals who can form legally binding contracts under applicable law.'.


Regarding eBid's T&Cs...Unless I am missing something then the only place I can see to access them is from the registration screen when you first sign up. Shouldn't there be a link on every page where they can be viewed (usually at the bottom)? They must evolve over time and if you continue to use the service then you implicitly continue to agree to the current T&Cs. How can you do that if you can't easily review them for changes?

[lofty100e]

Astral is correct, we were discussing this point on the Cyberdosh Challenge thread last week; but relating to "18" certificate films. As Nykmedia pointed out it means 18 in England but depending on the circumstances it can be younger in Scotland.

It is a problem that needs to be sorted out and an actual age attached to it as with eBid going international, it could cause problems.

I may be wrong but I am assuming the Adult age in America is 21 (at least for alcohol). I remember a President's daughter (I think it was Chelsea Clinton) getting in trouble for underage drinking at about 19.

If it is 21 then we could have problems if an 18 year old Brit tries to buy an adult product from a 21+ American. The Brit wouldn't be doing anything wrong under British Law; but under American Law the seller could be in trouble for selling to a Minor.

I agree I think all weapons should be banned from sale on eBid. Seeing mention of ANY sharp object is worrying, does that mean we won't be allowed to carry keys? I used to work with someone who had an Afro haircut, and the comb he used could easily have been used as a weapon if he wanted it to be.

[SalusLibrorum]

And, all this hysteria regarding 'knife crime' is exactly that. Hysteria. Whipped up by the newspapers to sell newspapers. I remember the brother of a friend getting stabbed and murdered, a 16 year old, 24 years ago, it didn't make more than a couple of inches in the local paper. Stabbings are nothing new, the latest frenzy is being stirred up because it's the latest fashionable thing to get excited about, next year it will all be forgotten because they'll be scaring everyone about something else.

If you look at the results of the British Crime survey, and the latest recorded crimes reports from the police (which was released a couple of days ago), the incidence of violent crime is dropping, and that includes a 9% drop in "most serious crimes against the person".

I so wish that the media would stop getting so hysterical about things and stop worrying the sheeple, it has a terribly restrictive effect on normal honest people when we get knee jerk laws in response from idiot politicians who should know better.

And anyway, all this talk about banning knives is crazy. Most of the knives that are getting stuck into other people aren't martial arts, hunting, or any other specialised knives or equipment, they're the knives that everyone has in their kitchens, you know, for cutting all things edible - are they going to be banned from sale too?

[moonwitch]

.



And anyway, all this talk about banning knives is crazy. Most of the knives that are getting stuck into other people aren't martial arts, hunting, or any other specialised knives or equipment, they're the knives that everyone has in their kitchens, you know, for cutting all things edible - are they going to be banned from sale too?

My thoughts exactly.

Craft knives can do serious damage too - I'm thinking of 'cutting up' crimes, which permanently disfigure people.

Lets ban ALL pointy knives and go back to cooking communally round spits - pulling the flesh to pieces - wouldnt want anyone to get injured by a steak knife

[astral276]

I agree I think all weapons should be banned from sale on eBid.

I don't agree with that on two counts:

1. What is defined as a 'weapon'? Anything can be a weapon. Carrying a golf club on the way to play golf - it is not a weapon. Carrying one on the way to watch a football match - then it could be deemed a weapon.
2. As long as an item can be legally sold then there should be no secondary restriction beyond what the law states placed on its sale.

There are some items that can be legally sold by some means but not by mail order - such as those items where verifiction of age is required. Some things you can sell quite legally but are prohibited (by the carrier) from sending through the mail. Each sale will need to be based on the individual circumstances and any restrictions applicable to it. I don't think a blanket ban on any type of item is the way to go.

[SalusLibrorum]

Our local pound shop has dozens of packets of those pseudo-stanley knives that you use and then break off when blunt. They're very very useful, but could be very dangerous in the wrong hands, as could screwdrivers, knitting needles, scissors, japanese chopsticks, in fact anything solid and pointy, doesn't even have to be made of metal or particularly sharp wielded with enough force.

Maybe we should just ban shopping for under 21s and be done with it.

[lofty100e]

I used to know someone who worked on security at the NEC, he told the laws were a joke. If a knife was over a certain length they could confiscate it, if not they had to hand it back. As if half an inch less of knife, would make it impossible to kill or injure someone?

[SalusLibrorum]

The other problem with all this is, of course, that when you ban sale of something, the only use you stop is the legitimate one, because honest people can no longer get hold of it. Criminals will always be able to get hold of and use anything they like, because adherence to 'the law' really doesn't bother them in the general scheme of things.