although I work within the antique trade my area is paper collectables but I more or less agree with choice. the only difference i would say is antique should be pre 1900 but that is only splitting hairs. the main thing is to get repro moved into their own section
Even though I would like to see nearly any defined set of parameters, I note that I, too, would have some category housekeeping to do if my own suggested dating method were to be adopted, but I would welcome it. As a newcomer here, I am occasionally confused as to where to put what.
Thinking allowed:
You still need a category specifically for drawings, also I'm not sure about folk art - But I think that is more of an American interest, so may still need it's own category. Then you have self-representing artists?
Should Sculpture be in the Antiques section rather than an Arts section.
Does it need to be called 'Fine' art?
Also a lot of people like to look at art specifically pre1900.
Still thinking aloud ...
... and although people don't like the 't'other side and want this site to be different, buyers and sellers are accustomed to browsing sections in a certain way, to change that dramatically may put people off. I think we have all discovered how difficult it is to encourage folk to embrace change ...
Prints section would need to be more clearly defined relating to limited/signed editions etc
To be honest, I really do think that there is not much wrong with the Art section at the moment. I would like to see a few segments added, but other than that it does work, it's just not having a repro category that messes things up.
I like the 'Reproduction - All Period Copies' title. No confusion there!
That was my thinking aloud stuff ...
I think Art & Antiques are two seperate areas, I can only speak for art, but yes I can understand the frustration of someone looking for an original piece and finding it clogged with reproductions, whether art or antiques. Unfortunately in Fine art there are 'prints' that are an original piece made by an artist individually, then there is the mass reproduction print, Van Goghs Sunflowers for instance. Sadly discipline in all categories is perhaps not as we would like, possibly by ignorance or laziness of the lister being unsure of the appropriate category. Solving the problem might be like trying to swim up a waterfall. I sell my original paintings and some Limited Edition prints, hopefully in the right place, and where buyers would look for them.
Ken
For low cost Prints and Affordable Originals just Click the Logo
and check out my other stores
Ken's Cave
Fantastic Fotos Store
It wasn't your kind of stuff that I was thinking of Ken, it was the mass produced reproductions. There is a lot of difference between a self-representing artist selling limited edition copies and somebody churning them through a photocopier or something similar.
What categories would you like to see?
Glad you caught it that I missed drawings in the above suggestion! Yes, we would definitely need a spot for drawings, too. Signed limited edition prints, etchings, etc, created under the supervision of the artist is known as Fine Art and, hopefully, would find a home in the appropriate period, whether antique, vintage, or contemporary. Mass produced prints of all periods would more properly belong under Reproductions.
Sculpture, be it a signed, limited edition fine bronze or a contemporary, one-of-a-kind piece as in one of the newly explored mediums such as the woven arts, for example, is also known as Fine Art since it is either a creation from the hand of the artist or one made directly under his supervision and approval as attested to by his signature.
Not all, but some of the contemporary, late 20th century pieces known as "Outsider Art" are strictly sculptural, while others are works on paper, etc. We may or may not have an appreciation for the Outsider pieces as Fine Art, but others most certainly do and it is likely that this new art form, too, will eventually sift its way to the secondary market as time goes on. I think of Outsider Art as the folk art of today.
Speaking of folk art, it can be comfortably listed under either Antiques or Fine Art, either way. Much of it does seem to be quite old, like the rare wood carvings and finely hand-cut silhouettes, etc.
I am keen to see the designation of "Fine" added to "Art" in order to distinguish it as from the hand of the artist as opposed to the "Decorative Arts" field which encompasses a vast number of mass produced pieces, beautiful or otherwise, manufactured during all periods. I honestly believe the wording helps to understand the differences between the two.
These category revisions may not be a project eBid is ready to take on just yet, if ever, but we were asked for our input and, so, I have respectfully given mine. Hopefully, others will pass their suggestions on along, too.
Last edited by ChoiceAntiques; 13th April 2008 at 01:01 AM.
Categories
Just been having a think about the category issue from the point of view of an ex professional classifier (I was a taxonomist in a previous incarnation).
I don’t see a need to separate art from antiques. There is a significant intersection, crossover, or whatever you want to call it, between the two. All my items in the print section, for instance, are both art and antique.
At the moment there is unevenness in development of the categories/subcategories that reflects the requests of sellers in the past. I asked for ‘Architectural Antiques’ to be added myself over a year ago and I’m entirely happy with the category as it stands (must get on with filling it up). Antique prints, Furniture likewise, both perfectly adequate.
I don’t favour date-based main categories. The system should go from generic at the higher levels to the specific at the lower. Generic categories would be types of thing like Furniture, Architectural Antiques, Textiles etc. Date based sub-categories, which are more specific, could be added if and when needed i.e. if the category grows.
It seems to me that some careful pruning would be useful.
The top level categories in antiques are a mixture of generic, date based (or period), style and even geographic. I’d get rid of the two date based categories (Regency and and Regency revival). They’re empty anyway. Remove the style based category i.e. Kitsch (empty). Remove the geographically based category i.e. Oriental.
Also cut down Books, Manuscripts and Maps to just Manuscripts. (or maybe get rid of it completely). Books, if any are listed in the category, should be removed to the main book section. Antique maps are usually engravings, lithographs etc. and therefore would fit well alongside antique (pre 1900 prints) in the art section.
At the same time Decorative Arts has become a bit of a ‘wastepaper basket’ category, a number of the generic categories that it contains should be promoted e.g. Woodenware, Metalware, Clocks etc. to higher level categories i.e. should sit alongside Furniture, Architectural Antiques etc. Some categories should be removed e.g. prints which is a duplicate.
Does any of that make sense? Perhaps I should draw a diagram?
Last edited by kedo; 13th April 2008 at 01:37 AM.
Whoo - now my head is spinning.
Are we in danger of making the cure more deadly than the disease?
Choice, in an earlier post you said you thought we should have a modern reproductions category but now I'm reading it as you think a category of that type should contain prints mass produced in any era? This would mean items such as Pears prints would go under reproductions - which I think would possibly have some dealers jumping up and down.
I'm not quite sure if that is what you're saying but I think when people generally refer to reproduction art they are thinking of mass produced modern copies made recently.
I think that we should be thinking what our customers would like to see as categories, rather than what we ourselves want to see each category interpreted as.
The structure has to be clean, quick and give the customer what they expect to find.
If we start to have Art - Fine Art - Reproduction Art categories and then divide them further, where, as a customer, would I go if I was looking for an older Pears print?
I tend to lean more towards Kedo's suggestion, in that art can be an antique and therefore we leave the categories together and don't date line at the main end, but start to as they break down.
To be honest, I am not particularly unhappy with the categories in the Art section as they stand, apart from a little tweaking, but the reason for starting this thread was due to the amount of modern reproductions being placed in the older date line categories - which is still my main gripe.
No, I don't think of the old chromolithographs and other colorful advertising pieces as mass produced items, although I suppose technically they once were. I would expect to look for them under Antiques: Prints.
It is the contemporary reproductions of those old chromolithographs and earlier pieces which are the problem. If reproductions of any art form, print or otherwise, were clearly identified for what they are and listed within their own assigned category, buyers who have an appreciation for them would easily find them and other antiques and fine art pieces would not be buried beneath them. It just seemed logical to me that, assuming the two categories were to be separated, that reproductions for all other forms of art would be more compatible under Fine Arts than Antiques and visa-versa. In other words, that both categories would have a spot for reproductions.
Maybe I am looking too far ahead with these suggestions. In any case, the decision is not mine to make and I really do not wish to rock the boat here. It is only that I can envision categories becoming seriously overgrown if eBid continues its current growth pattern and I thought establishing clearly defined categories for both Art and Antiques would be less of a task if done sooner rather than later.
I do have a few pieces of original art I would like to list at some future time, but antiques are my primary focus. We seem to have just a few folks offering them now, but I am hopeful others will join us, especially in May when another wave is expected to exit from that "other" site. I was thinking a bit of category housekeeping would make eBid more viable for them.
I liked this site well enough to join and then to later become a lifetime member, so I will adapt to however we are structured and will place a greater or lesser emphasis on antiques as warranted. I really don't want to wear out this topic for anyone either, so I respectfully leave it to the rest of you to mull over. Do I, lol, hear clapping?
the problem is the whole area is a mine field, but somehow the modern repros DO need to be moved, so maybe a section called Modern Repro's should be made. Hopefully that would catch 90% of the stuff
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
