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Thread: GDPR Question

  1. #11

    Default Re: GDPR Question

    I agree eBid do not request an address to be displayed, I found this strange as on the other side if you are a business seller your details appear on every listing though it can be hard to find. They say this is because of the Distance Selling Regulations. It appears either they or eBid are wrong.

    You say "So in my own opinion no law is broken, an order isn't complete until it's payed for." The regulation says the details must be provided BEFORE an order is even placed not when it is paid for. You may be correct that the eBid address fulfils the requirement, but I have my doubts. Perhaps eBid can get their legal bods to look into this

  2. #12
    Forum Saint sidthelamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDPR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidliterature View Post
    I agree eBid do not request an address to be displayed, I found this strange as on the other side if you are a business seller your details appear on every listing though it can be hard to find. They say this is because of the Distance Selling Regulations. It appears either they or eBid are wrong.

    You say "So in my own opinion no law is broken, an order isn't complete until it's payed for." The regulation says the details must be provided BEFORE an order is even placed not when it is paid for. You may be correct that the eBid address fulfils the requirement, but I have my doubts. Perhaps eBid can get their legal bods to look into this

    you need to udate what your telling people, there is no such thing as distance selling regulations they were superseded in 2014 = The Consumer Contracts Regulations
    http://uk.ebid.net/stores/under pressure

    MY ATTITUDE IS A RESULT OF YOUR ACTIONS!!!
    IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BLAME YOURSELF.

  3. #13
    Forum Saint sidthelamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDPR Question

    the key points listed below, its of note that key information that you must supply the customer is not stated before a contract is made, ebid provide the key information as in sellers details when the contract is started which complies with the law and how it was amended in 2015

    Information you should expect

    The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 require traders to give you certain information.
    The Regulations came into force on 13 June 2014 and apply to contracts entered into on or after that date.
    If you entered into a contract prior to 13 June 2014, these Regulations will not apply. Please see our guide to the Distance Selling Regulations which cover the period before 13 June 2014.
    The specific information varies depending on whether the sale is made at a distance (for example, online or over the phone) or face-to-face somewhere that's not the business premises of the trader (also known as 'off-premises') or in a store.
    For distance or off-premises sales Key information which the trader must provide includes:

    • a description of the goods, service or digital content, including how long any commitment will last on the part of the consumer
    • the total price of the goods, service or digital service or the manner in which the price will be calculated if this can’t be determined
    • how you will pay for the goods or services and when they will be provided to you
    • all additional delivery charges and other costs (and if these charges can't be calculated in advance, the fact that they may be payable)
    • details of who pays for the cost of returning items if you have a right to cancel and change your mind
    • details of any right to cancel - the trader also needs to provide, or make available, a standard cancellation form to make cancelling easy (although you aren’t under any obligation to use it)
    • information about the seller, including their geographical address and contact details and the address and identity of any other trader for whom the trader is acting
    • information on the compatibility of digital content with hardware and other software that the trader is aware of (or can reasonably be expected to be aware of).
    http://uk.ebid.net/stores/under pressure

    MY ATTITUDE IS A RESULT OF YOUR ACTIONS!!!
    IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BLAME YOURSELF.

  4. #14

    Default Re: GDPR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by sidthelamp View Post
    you need to udate what your telling people, there is no such thing as distance selling regulations they were superseded in 2014 = The Consumer Contracts Regulations
    Thank you for pointing this out, I stand corrected and apologise for the misleading information I gave.

    I have just gone back to the page where I got the information from and it appears to be up to date. It is information provided by the Government for businesses concerning Distance and Online Selling and does not refer to any particular Act. Unfortunately the page isn’t dated. It can be found here

    https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distan...for-businesses

    It also says “These rules don’t apply to: goods and services worth £42 or less.” If this is correct the millions of online sales aren’t covered which I find odd.
    Last edited by liquidliterature; 3rd June 2018 at 11:23 PM.

  5. #15

    Default Re: GDPR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by sidthelamp View Post
    the key points listed below, its of note that key information that you must supply the customer is not stated before a contract is made, ebid provide the key information as in sellers details when the contract is started which complies with the law and how it was amended in 2015

    Information you should expect

    The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 require traders to give you certain information.
    The Regulations came into force on 13 June 2014 and apply to contracts entered into on or after that date.
    If you entered into a contract prior to 13 June 2014, these Regulations will not apply. Please see our guide to the Distance Selling Regulations which cover the period before 13 June 2014.
    The specific information varies depending on whether the sale is made at a distance (for example, online or over the phone) or face-to-face somewhere that's not the business premises of the trader (also known as 'off-premises') or in a store.
    For distance or off-premises sales Key information which the trader must provide includes:

    • a description of the goods, service or digital content, including how long any commitment will last on the part of the consumer
    • the total price of the goods, service or digital service or the manner in which the price will be calculated if this can’t be determined
    • how you will pay for the goods or services and when they will be provided to you
    • all additional delivery charges and other costs (and if these charges can't be calculated in advance, the fact that they may be payable)
    • details of who pays for the cost of returning items if you have a right to cancel and change your mind
    • details of any right to cancel - the trader also needs to provide, or make available, a standard cancellation form to make cancelling easy (although you aren’t under any obligation to use it)
    • information about the seller, including their geographical address and contact details and the address and identity of any other trader for whom the trader is acting
    • information on the compatibility of digital content with hardware and other software that the trader is aware of (or can reasonably be expected to be aware of).
    Information to be provided before making an off-premises contract

    10.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader—

    (a)must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner,

    and this appears in Schedule 2:

    (c)the geographical address at which the trader is established and, where available, the trader’s telephone number, fax number and e-mail address, to enable the consumer to contact the trader quickly and communicate efficiently;

    The above is from the original Act and I haven’t been able to find out if it has been amended. I am not sure if the information provided by eBid when the contract is started covers this.

  6. #16
    Forum Saint sidthelamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDPR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidliterature View Post
    Information to be provided before making an off-premises contract

    10.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader—

    (a)must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner,

    and this appears in Schedule 2:

    (c)the geographical address at which the trader is established and, where available, the trader’s telephone number, fax number and e-mail address, to enable the consumer to contact the trader quickly and communicate efficiently;

    The above is from the original Act and I haven’t been able to find out if it has been amended. I am not sure if the information provided by eBid when the contract is started covers this.
    you really dont get it do you the distance selling regulations have been superseded, what do you mean original act ? the distance selling regulations ? they dont exist anymore despite what the government website tells people,

    a contract does not start because some one hits a buy it now button, they have not paid , i as a seller have no obligation to fulfill a button being pressed till im paid,

    ebid are wrong but not for the reasons you state, they provide my physical address /contact details before a payment is received , i have no duty to process a order that has not been paid for, its a big assumption that if some one hits a buy it now button they will follow through with a payment,
    http://uk.ebid.net/stores/under pressure

    MY ATTITUDE IS A RESULT OF YOUR ACTIONS!!!
    IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BLAME YOURSELF.

  7. #17
    Forum Saint sidthelamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDPR Question

    the consumer contract act clearly states
    4.“trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

    so anyone selling on line selling there personal goods as a hobby seller are not defined by the act .
    schedule 2
    (c)
    the geographical address at which the trader is established and, where available, the trader’s telephone number, fax number and e-mail address, to enable the consumer to contact the trader quickly and communicate efficiently;

    12.—(1) In the case of an off-premises contract, the trader must give the consumer—
    (a)
    a copy of the signed contract, or

    (b)
    confirmation of the contract.

    (2) The confirmation must include all the information referred to in Schedule 2 unless the trader has already provided that information to the consumer on a durable medium prior to the conclusion of the off-premises contract.
    so were back to the old chestnut of conclusion of the contract, a payment does not mean a conclusion of a contract , a payment from a business sellers point of view, is the start of the contract at any point after that payment section 12 kicks in were the consumer is legally entitled to the information in schedule 2 , section 12 (2) confirmation , were as it states the information may have already been provided it HAS to be provided when the contract starts, the contract does not start till the payment is received, so for the purpose of sellers on ebid providing there address this HAS to be provided after the payment the act says it can be provided before , but must legally be provided after the contract starts,

    the act also states you must clearly show a buy it now button and explain in your listing or TCs as such that when using the buy now button the consumer enters a legal contract, which means they are not legally bound till doing so, nor is the seller, this does not effect the consumers right to cancel within 14 days without reason if they wish to do so.
    Last edited by sidthelamp; 4th June 2018 at 01:02 AM.
    http://uk.ebid.net/stores/under pressure

    MY ATTITUDE IS A RESULT OF YOUR ACTIONS!!!
    IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BLAME YOURSELF.

  8. #18
    Forum Master JaBek1's Avatar
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    Default Re: GDPR Question

    All this about the Distance Selling Rules being superseded by the Consumer Contract Act is very interesting, Sid. However, how does it relate to this New EU GDPR rule?

    While I'm not sure about how UK law treats auctions, most states over here consider the placing of a bid on an item being sold at auction as entering into a contract to purchase the item at the amount of the bid if it is the winning bid. The laws governing auctions, at least over here, are not the same as other consumer protection laws which deal with regular retail sales agreements. But as I said, I'm not familiar with the laws governing auctions over there in the UK.

    Of course, the way I understand the consumer protection laws over here, there is a distinction if sales transaction is entered into at the buyer's location (salesman comes to the buyer's home) or it is entered into at the merchants place of business. However, I've always been under the impression that transactions initiated by the buyer through visiting the merchants web site or one that is initiated by the buyer placing an order through a mail order firm, is considered to be the same as the buyer visiting the merchants place of business. The reason being that they have initiated the transaction themselves. Again, I have no idea of how such things are handled under UK or even EU law.

    Of course, it would be nice if eBid management could give a bit of guidance regarding this GDPR thing.

    I know that the subject of my having my physical address and license numbers on my About Me page in compliance with laws over here, however, if the GDPR rule requires it I'm perfectly willing to add the required information again. It would, as I've mentioned, be nice for the folks in eBid's tower to give us a little guidance regarding this issue. Don't you agree?

  9. #19

    Default Re: GDPR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by sidthelamp View Post
    you really dont get it do you the distance selling regulations have been superseded, what do you mean original act ? the distance selling regulations ? they dont exist anymore despite what the government website tells people,

    a contract does not start because some one hits a buy it now button, they have not paid , i as a seller have no obligation to fulfill a button being pressed till im paid,

    ebid are wrong but not for the reasons you state, they provide my physical address /contact details before a payment is received , i have no duty to process a order that has not been paid for, its a big assumption that if some one hits a buy it now button they will follow through with a payment,
    I wasn't referring to a Distance Selling Regulations I was referring to details on Distance Selling on an official Government web site and as I said the details appear to be current but cannot be sure. If you disagree with the information on that page, perhaps you should advise the Government they are wrong.

    By the original Act: I was referring to the full details of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 found on the Government Archives web site. There weren’t any details of any later amendments.

    The regulations state "Information to be provided before making an off-premises contract" and "Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader". I find this contradictory. To me the first part means that the information has to be available as soon as an item is listed for sale. The second part suggests that it can be provided when contact begins between seller and customer. Note I have said contact not contract! These comments are not intended to be specifically about eBid sales.

  10. #20

    Default Re: GDPR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by sidthelamp View Post
    the consumer contract act clearly states
    4.“trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

    so anyone selling on line selling there personal goods as a hobby seller are not defined by the act .
    schedule 2
    (c)
    the geographical address at which the trader is established and, where available, the trader’s telephone number, fax number and e-mail address, to enable the consumer to contact the trader quickly and communicate efficiently;

    12.—(1) In the case of an off-premises contract, the trader must give the consumer—
    (a)
    a copy of the signed contract, or

    (b)
    confirmation of the contract.

    (2) The confirmation must include all the information referred to in Schedule 2 unless the trader has already provided that information to the consumer on a durable medium prior to the conclusion of the off-premises contract.
    so were back to the old chestnut of conclusion of the contract, a payment does not mean a conclusion of a contract , a payment from a business sellers point of view, is the start of the contract at any point after that payment section 12 kicks in were the consumer is legally entitled to the information in schedule 2 , section 12 (2) confirmation , were as it states the information may have already been provided it HAS to be provided when the contract starts, the contract does not start till the payment is received, so for the purpose of sellers on ebid providing there address this HAS to be provided after the payment the act says it can be provided before , but must legally be provided after the contract starts,

    the act also states you must clearly show a buy it now button and explain in your listing or TCs as such that when using the buy now button the consumer enters a legal contract, which means they are not legally bound till doing so, nor is the seller, this does not effect the consumers right to cancel within 14 days without reason if they wish to do so.
    I am aware that this only applies to sellers registered as a business, would have thought you would have realised that. Don't see how section 12 is relevant to when the information such as address has to be given.

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